This decking drainage isn't acceptable right?

[hamanbhatia]

Pretty self explanatory. First rain since decking was painted yesterday. Noticed these puddles. Have sent a message to the PB and they havebeen pretty nice about solving issues so far, so let's see what they come back with.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Bird bath’s are common in flat work and hard to correct without total replacement.

 

[hamanbhatia]

Bird bath’s are common in flat work and hard to correct without total replacement.

So this is acceptable?

 

[Jimrahbe]

H,

In my mind, deck drains are there to prevent the rainwater from washing into your pool. They are not there to capture every bit of water that falls on the decking.

Let's see what some of your other members have to say.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[hamanbhatia]

H,

In my mind, deck drains are there to prevent the rainwater from washing into your pool. They are not there to capture every bit of water that falls on the decking.

Let's see what some of your other members have to say.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Are you suggesting that this is acceptable then? Not trying to be smart, asking a genuine question as my thinking was that water should drain into the nearest shower drain. Especially with the 1st one, where the nearest drain is inches away.

 

[duraleigh]

It is acceptable to me but I am not the one paying for it.

 

[Jimrahbe]

H,

I think everyone has different levels of what is acceptable.

I am not a decking expert and that is why I suggested that we see what some of our other members have to say..

That said, I think there is a balancing act between sloping the concrete enough to direct all the water to a drain and sloping it so much that none of the deck furniture can sit level.

It is hard to tell from the pics, but how deep is the puddle and how many puddles do you have? How long does it take for the puddle to dry out when it is no longer raining?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Acceptable to me may not be acceptable to you, what I see that’s not acceptable is the expansion control line.

 

[hamanbhatia]

H,

I think everyone has different levels of what is acceptable.

I am not a decking expert and that is why I suggested that we see what some of our other members have to say..

That said, I think there is a balancing act between sloping the concrete enough to direct all the water to a drain and sloping it so much that none of the deck furniture can sit level.

It is hard to tell from the pics, but how deep is the puddle and how many puddles do you have? How long does it take for the puddle to dry out when it is no longer raining?

Thanks,

Jim R.

Two puddles, max an inch deep, most likely less. Has not been raining for a couple of hours, and the puddle is still there. There isn't anything to dry it out though. So may be tomorrow morning when the sun is out.

 

[hamanbhatia]

Acceptable to me may not be acceptable to you, what I see that’s not acceptable is the expansion control line.

That particular line is between the decking and the existing covered patio. Not sure if that's a good enough reason for it but just wanted to mention that in case it matters.

 

[Jimrahbe]

H,

None of my decking is in direct contact with my house, brick, or other concrete foundations. Where the Decking touches the house or foundations, there is a 3/4' wide bead of Pool Caulk (Deck-O-Seal) to allow for expansion and contraction.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

That particular line is between the decking and the existing covered patio. Not sure if that's a good enough reason for it but just wanted to mention that in case it matters.

Is the expansion joint completely concrete free between the two slabs? Can’t tell from the picture if foam is installed between the two.

 

[JamesW]

It looks sloppy and goofy, in my opinion.

I would have done deck drain on the red lines and sloped the concrete to the drain.

Deck Drain - Decorative Concrete Forming Systems and Deck Drains for Swimming Pools | Stegmeier LLC | 817-467-9028

Stegmeier Corporation’s Deck Drain is an extruded PVC drain that comes with connecting couplers and is designed to be set level. This drain is commonly used in pool decks, patios and other pedestrian traffic areas. Deck Drain is easy to install by staking on grade (no trenching required).

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Frontier Deck Drain - Decorative Concrete Forming Systems and Deck Drains for Swimming Pools | Stegmeier LLC | 817-467-9028

The Frontier Deck Drain is a removable top drain that features a double wall base and a snap in top. When installing this drain, the tops are staggered past the joints making the joints very rigid. The removable top caps make it easy to clean the drain or replace the top caps. It is recommended...

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DECK-O-DRAIN drainage system provides an effective drainage system for concrete pool decks, effectively collecting and carrying water away quickly from pool decks.

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[Dirk]

No concrete expert here, but then, I don't install concrete. That's why I would hire a professional, to get an end result I couldn't possible create myself. I find several aspects of that job unacceptable, and would be disappointed were it in my back yard. My deck is 10 years old and doesn't puddle like that, anywhere. Right under where I put my table is a drain, and you can clearly see how the deck slopes to it, and it works well. I've never thought that the table or chairs don't sit right, so I guess I'm saying that there can be enough slope, if it's done well, without aversely affecting furniture placement or use.

What is going on with the expansion joint between the deck and the coping? Is that finished? It looks to be a mess, without any clear space to actually install an expansion joint. It almost looks like it was sawed after it cured. Mine is about 3/4" wide. There's not supposed to be any concrete in the joint itself. And that one line, that was pointed out by another poster that is all crooked, is a very clear indication to me of poor craftsmanship and just a general lack of pride of work. I can't imagine an experienced concrete installer would look at that line and think "Yep, that's looks fine!"

The one pic showing the concrete up against the brick wall also looks to be very sloppy. Is that done? And I see something similar between the deck and the spa walls. Maybe those areas have yet to be cleaned up? Generally, I think concrete is "done" before it even dries, so that there is no evening or cleaning after that.

I'm with previous posters, that those connections between deck and walls should have been expansion joints. And James had a good idea, the drains could have been between deck and walls, without the drain in the middle of the walkway, which would have allowed a perfect, gentle, flat slope.

And if you're saying you have puddles that are 1" deep, that is by no definition acceptable. IMO, 1/4" would have been pushing it.

This is not like hand troweling a freeform swimming pool finish. When installing a deck there can be skreed guides and the whole thing could be skreeded to virtually flat. Sorry, I don't know all the terms, I just know they can make countertops of concrete, living room floors, garage floors, etc, so perfectly flat that you'd be hard pressed to find a low or high spot. And you definitely would not expect a 1" divot in a living room or garage floor.

I will admit that I'm far on the OCD end of the spectrum when it comes to construction quality, but if you pay for a professional job, the end result should look professional. Yours doesn't to me. Now, it's not a ridiculously bad job, and probably not something that should be redone, but, well, it's not high-end either (and I suspect you paid a high-end price). See what they're willing to do to make it look and work better. Negotiate from there.

 

[Dirk]

I've only ever had any experience with my own pool's expansion joint, but it sure doesn't look like this. It looks like the concrete was poured right up to the coping, and then later sawed. If any of the deck is touching any of the coping, like below the saw cut, then that's not an expansion joint. And it that's the case, and the deck is poured right up to both the coping and the house foundation, with no true expansion joint anywhere in between, I'd say that's going to be a problem somewhere down the road.

 

[Rich D]

Definitely did not get the "A" team on that one. Looks more like the "D" team. Sloppy uncaring (or inexperienced ) work. Trench drains would have a much better (more expensive) option. From the pics it appears the drain is set plenty low enough, they just did not take the time to get the pitch correct. If you are going to confront the installer just take a small pop level and check the pitch right at the drain. It looks like you will get a full bubble all the way around the drain and 2' away it will be pitching the wrong way. No real excuse for a flat work guy not to be able see that. I would say both the puddles and the "Squiggly Trough Control Joint" are both unacceptable. Just My Humble opinion..

 

[hamanbhatia]

Acceptable to me may not be acceptable to you, what I see that’s not acceptable is the expansion control line.

They are going to fix it. They also spotted that first. More than the puddles. Thank you for pointing this out.

 

[hamanbhatia]

Definitely did not get the "A" team on that one. Looks more like the "D" team. Sloppy uncaring (or inexperienced ) work. Trench drains would have a much better (more expensive) option. From the pics it appears the drain is set plenty low enough, they just did not take the time to get the pitch correct. If you are going to confront the installer just take a small pop level and check the pitch right at the drain. It looks like you will get a full bubble all the way around the drain and 2' away it will be pitching the wrong way. No real excuse for a flat work guy not to be able see that. I would say both the puddles and the "Squiggly Trough Control Joint" are both unacceptable. Just My Humble opinion..

Yup, the decking crew and the PB both agreed on both fronts. Squiggly line was actually pointed by themselves. I had called them just for the puddle. There was at least no argument as to whether this is bad or not. Will update you once it's all done. Thank you so much for your help.

 

[hamanbhatia]

No concrete expert here, but then, I don't install concrete. That's why I would hire a professional, to get an end result I couldn't possible create myself. I find several aspects of that job unacceptable, and would be disappointed were it in my back yard. My deck is 10 years old and doesn't puddle like that, anywhere. Right under where I put my table is a drain, and you can clearly see how the deck slopes to it, and if works well. I've never thought that the table or chairs don't sit right, so I guess I'm saying that there can be enough slope, it it's done well, without aversely affecting furniture placement or use.

What is going on with the expansion joint between the deck and the coping? Is that finished? It looks to be a mess, without any clear space to actually install an expansion joint. It almost looks like it was sawed after it cured. Mine is about 3/4" wide. There's not supposed to be any concrete in the joint itself. And that one line, that was pointed out by another poster that is all crooked, is a very clear indication to me of poor craftsmanship and just a general lack of pride of work. I can't imagine an experienced concrete installer would look at that line and think "Yep, that's looks fine!"

The one pic showing the concrete up against the brick wall also looks to be very sloppy. Is that done? And I see something similar between the deck and the spa walls. Maybe those areas have yet to be cleaned up? Generally, I think concrete is "done" before it even dries, so that there is no evening or cleaning after that.

I'm with previous posters, that those connections between deck and walls should have been expansion joints. And James had a good idea, the drains could have been between deck and walls, without the drain in the middle of the walkway, which would have allowed a perfect, gentle, flat slope.

And if you're saying you have puddles that are 1" deep, that is by no definition acceptable. IMO, 1/4" would have been pushing it.

This is not like hand troweling a freeform swimming pool finish. When installing a deck there can be skreed guides and the whole thing could be skreeded to virtually flat. Sorry, I don't know all the terms, I just know they can make countertops of concrete, living room floors, garage floors, etc, so perfectly flat that you'd be hard pressed to find a low or high spot. And you definitely would not expect a 1" divot in a living room or garage floor.

I will admit that I'm far on the OCD end of the spectrum when it comes to construction quality, but if you pay for a professional job, the end result should look professional. Yours doesn't to me. Now, it's not a ridiculously bad job, and probably not something that should be redone, but, well, it's not high-end either (and I suspect you paid a high-end price). See what they're willing to do to make it look and work better. Negotiate from there.

Thank you for your detailed response. Yup, the decking crew and the PB both agreed on both fronts. Squiggly line was actually pointed by themselves. I had called them just for the puddle. There was at least no argument as to whether this is bad or not. This was for everywhere, between coping and decking, decking and patio (squiggly line), decking and brick wall. Not that it is finished yet but they did see some issues there that they said need to be fixed before it's "done".

As far as the puddles are concerned, my depth perception was surely wrong. Puddles were the depth of a quarter.

Will update you once it's all done. Thank you again. Hoping it all turns out great at the end.

 

[markayash]

Keep a good watch where it meets the house. We have a large, probably 15' of concrete from house to pool, desk and when we moved it water was leaking into the basement due to the deck dropping..
Not talking about now but 5 or 10 years down the road.