Spa Draining into pool overnight

[fooflighter787]

HI all. I have the typical elevated spa drain into pool with pump off overnight issue. This pool has run without an issue for 5 years and I have taken care of it the entire time. In the past, I've replaced my Spa Check valve and this has fixed the problem. Now I have replaced it and still leaking about 6-8 inches overnight. Also, replaced all the check valves including the valve between my heater and chlorinator, the jet pump check valve which leads to the spa, the infloor cleaner check valve which also has lines in the spa, and the cleaner flow meter check valve from the cleaner return. I just did a complete new filter install/cleaning and applied magic lube where applicable to o rings. The problem stared BEFORE the complete check valve/cleaning...thinking that would fix the issue

With the pool pumps off...I can hear and see a fluttering and ticking sound at the Spa Check valve and also the cleaner check valve and flow rate valve. Both are pulsing open every second...and over time the spa begins to drain. I took off the spa check valve again and saw a small build up of calcium where the check valve rubber seal would sit, so i scraped and cleaned that off. Still the problem persists. ( I need to check the cleaner check valve for calcium as well - it was getting dark)

I did a smoke check using some incense to test for air leaks around all the valves and gaskets and can't find any leaks

I checked the Never Lube diverter seal on my Spa Floor Suction Drain, and it appears to be fine. I am replacing that tomorrow. The automated actuator works perfectly.

This one has got me really stumped.

Any help would be much appreciated

I've attached some pics to show my plumbing and flow and where the spa is in the morning below the spillover

 

[1poolman1]

HI all. I have the typical elevated spa drain into pool with pump off overnight issue. In the past, I've replaced my Spa Check valve and this has fixed the problem. Now I have replaced it and still leaking about 6-8 inches overnight. Replaced all the check valves including my valve between my heater and chlorinator, the jet pump check valve, the infloor cleaner check valve, the cleaner flow meter check valve. I just did a complete new filter install/cleaning and applied magic lube where applicable to o rings.

With the pool pumps off...I can hear and see a fluttering and ticking sound at the Spa Check valve and also the cleaner check valve. Both are pulsing open every second...and over time the spa begins to drain. I took off the spa check valve again and saw a small build up of calcium where the check valve rubber seal would sit, so i scraped and cleaned that off. Still the problem persists. ( I need to check the cleaner check valve for calcium as well - it was getting dark)

I did a smoke check using some incense to test for air leaks around all the valves and gaskets and can't find any leaks

I checked the Never Lube diverter seal on my Spa Floor Drain, and it appears to be fine. I am replacing that tomorrow.

This one has got be really stumped.

Any help would be much appreciated

I've attached some pics to show my plumbing and flow

Looks like suction valve may not have spa port completely closed. Need a view from the top of the actuator.

 

[fooflighter787]

Looks like suction valve may not have spa port completely closed. Need a view from the top of the actuator.

I also included some video which includes the ticking/clicking sound...the noise in the background is my air conditioning, the pool pump is off, the first one is the spa check, the second is the cleaner check...I can also hear the pulsing/flutter if I put my ear to the filter body housing

 

[fooflighter787]

*Update*

I closed the Skimmer Return to OFF and the knocking stops on the Spa Return Check valve but continues on the Cleaner Check and flow valves

At this point if it's not the Spa Suction Diverter or Calcium on the check valve housing body where the check seals meet...then I'm at a loss

Going to install the new diverter in the Spa Suction tomorrow when the part arrives and check the other two valve internals for calcium deposits

Then, I'll let it go another night.

From there I guess I'm going to have to start plugging lines etc and maybe call in the pros

 

[fooflighter787]

So, I could really use some help now.

I replaced the diverter in the spa suction valve, the check valve again. Now this time I have stopped the knocking but I am still draining into the pool from the spa which is then overflowing out my overflow drain to the street. I turned the autofiller off to see what happens but I don't have a clue what to do now.

Help would be greatly appreciated

Thank you

 

[wireform]

So one more thing to consider. Every place that has a union has a gasket inside. Don't open each one just snug it by hand a bit. Last week one of my pools which has a quad filter like yours, when I shut the system off to check something I heard noise coming from the pressure gauge area. Low and behold when I turned my head there was bubbles coming from the oring between the filter shell and the threaded stem. I removed and relubed it and back it went.

 

[fooflighter787]

So one more thing to consider. Every place that has a union has a gasket inside. Don't open each one just snug it by hand a bit. Last week one of my pools which has a quad filter like yours, when I shut the system off to check something I heard noise coming from the pressure gauge area. Low and behold when I turned my head there was bubbles coming from the oring between the filter shell and the threaded stem. I removed and relubed it and back it went.

Are you talking about the pressure guage on top of the filter?

 

[Poolbreh]

Process of elimination, try and isolate every possibility. I would turn ifcs off over night and see what happens. You don’t have a shut off so you will probably have to put it in service mode and spa fill.

 

[wireform]

Are you talking about the pressure guage on top of the filter?

Yes

 

[fooflighter787]

Yes

Okay I'll check that

 

[fooflighter787]

Process of elimination, try and isolate every possibility. I would turn ifcs off over night and see what happens. You don’t have a shut off so you will probably have to put it in service mode and spa fill.

Okay, I will try that . Right now I have everything off just seeing where the water drains to

 

[fooflighter787]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions

Okay some good news. I replaced the Spa Check with a Flow Vis check valve and also replaced the diverter in the Spa Suction with a new one, those together almost fixed my problem 100%. I added to my problem initially buying offbrand ATIE parts from Amazon instead of Jandy, trying to save a buck. The springs in the offbrand check valves can't hold the pressure and click and leak. The flow vis valve is robust and has a much stronger spring, so that valve at the Spa Return and the new Diverter are keeping the Spa almost level after 5 hours. I am still getting a slight fluttering at the cheapo check valve still installed at the In Floor Cleaner and that is letting a small amount of water return to the pool via the A&A assemblies and back to the popup heads. I have Jandy Check valves on the way. when in doubt use OEM. Lesson learned

 

[jbhpool]

I have had the same issue with spa draining to pool and it has always been the check valve seal. Since I was tired of paying Pentair ~$40 for just the flapper, I made my own seal from silicone sheet screwed to the original flapper. I may start selling these conversion kits because the gouging by the pool parts industry is really annoying.

 

[generessler]

Even with OEM (Pentaire in my case), beware of clone parts. I've had problems with drain-down after a couple of months using non-OEM flapper replacements. At half the price it seemed with a try. Turned out not. Sigh...