Seriously need help- CYA and Chlorine

[jnbernier]

I need help! (please). I am about 5 months in as a new owner of a jacuzzi swim spa. All of a sudden my Total and free Chlorine were off the chart high I tested with a different test strip and Total was off the chart high but FC normal.. I started reading here about CYA. Only the new test strip had CYA and it showed it was at zero. Sooooo, I bought Cyanuric acid and started adding it. ..... nothing. Did not raise the CYA and did not change the chlorine profiles with either test strips. I ordered the TF Pro test kit. it arrived yesterday. I tested my CYA and it is well over 100 (meaning it does not even get half way up to the 100 mark). I have to assume that the test strips were bad/not working when it read that CYA was 0? Now I am totally at a loss. I assume I need to drain my spa, but that is not easy. I'm in NH. It's cold. A complete refill is not really feasible. I could probably partially drain and fill from my well if I have to but that will introduce high iron and manganese creating a whole new set of problems. I'm losing sleep over this. I hope I didn't totally trash my new swim spa.

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

Not to worry. High CYA levels are very common in hot tubs and swim spas. For now, until you can drain some of the water and refill, maintain the free chlorine at a higher level, say between 3-5 ppm. High cyanuric levels simply means that the chlorine works more slowly in oxidizing and sanitizing organic waste so you need a higher daily level to maintain protection from bacteria. I recommend that you try to use liquid chlorine (bleach) for a sanitizer. You want regular sodium hypochlorite bleach with zero additives. Your hot tub, pool or grocery store should carry it. It is a fantastic wY to maintain your swim spa. There is no cyanuric acid in bleach. Once you drain the vessel you will need to build the cyanuric acid up to around 30-40 ppm and try to maintain that level.
This forum will assist and help you become professional at the Di-chlor/bleach method. No, you did not harm the swim spa.

 

[jnbernier]

Not to worry. High CYA levels are very common in hot tubs and swim spas. For now, until you can drain some of the water and refill, maintain the free chlorine at a higher level, say between 3-5 ppm. High cyanuric levels simply means that the chlorine works more slowly in oxidizing and sanitizing organic waste so you need a higher daily level to maintain protection from bacteria. I recommend that you try to use liquid chlorine (bleach) for a sanitizer. You want regular sodium hypochlorite bleach with zero additives. Your hot tub, pool or grocery store should carry it. It is a fantastic wY to maintain your swim spa. There is no cyanuric acid in bleach. Once you drain the vessel you will need to build the cyanuric acid up to around 30-40 ppm and try to maintain that level.
This forum will assist and help you become professional at the Di-chlor/bleach method. No, you did not harm the swim spa.

thanks so much for the reply. two follow-ups. FC is 20.
My FC and TC have been through the roof for two weeks with no sign of moving. are you saying that they will eventually come down? Jacuzzi says NOT to use liquid chlorine...that it will damage the equipment???

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

The chlorine level will drop. Ideally, remove the cover to allow for more dissipation. Many manufacturers caution against bleach. Manufacturers are trying to help their dealers sell more of the expensive maintenance chemicals.
Bleach will not harm your swim spa. Millions of hot tub owners use bleach as their go to sanitizer. Pool owners as well.

 

[Gebo]

CYA doesn’t dissipate over time. Cl does. I’m assuming you know that. When I REALLY messed up in the beginning and got my Cl super high, I used hydrogen peroxide to reduce my Cl. Bottom line and you already know this, the only way to lower CYA is to get it out of the spa by removing water.

Do you know how you got to this high level of Cl to begin with? I’m assuming problems with the test strips???
Heck, I didn’t even know you could use test strips for checking CYA.

I got my liquid chlorine from Rural King. You gotta make sure you use the “right” liquid Cl. I didn’t wanna mess up so I bought “pool” chlorine. Some of the chlorine you buy has fabric softener in it and you don’t wanna use that.

Download the “Pool Math” app. It’s an invaluable tool I use several times a week.

You haven’t ruined anything. Like most of us have done (and will do again) you just made mistake. It’s a simple fix. It’s just not convenient. If you are like me, you won’t get a good nights sleep til you drain and start over.

 

[Bperry]

thanks so much for the reply. two follow-ups. FC is 20.
My FC and TC have been through the roof for two weeks with no sign of moving. are you saying that they will eventually come down? Jacuzzi says NOT to use liquid chlorine...that it will damage the equipment???

Do NOT use test strips anymore, they were the cause of the problem because they aren’t accurate. Now that you have the TF test kit, you only need to test FC and CC (for chlorine) You can ignore TC. This means you don’t need to use the yellow OTO test and can just do the more accurate FAS-DPD test for chlorine.

If your CYA is really that high, your FC may be just right at 20ppm. The higher the CYA, the more FC you need to stay sanitary. Just make sure you are not getting those numbers from test strips before you swim.

The CYA may degrade faster with warmer water temps so heating it may help lower the CYA to more manageable levels.

Liquid chlorine is fine. The water doesn’t know if the chlorine comes as a liquid or a solid. The solid stuff is what has all the CYA in it and you don’t want any more of that.

 

[jnbernier]

Do NOT use test strips anymore, they were the cause of the problem because they aren’t accurate. Now that you have the TF test kit, you only need to test FC and CC (for chlorine) You can ignore TC. This means you don’t need to use the yellow OTO test and can just do the more accurate FAS-DPD test for chlorine.

If your CYA is really that high, your FC may be just right at 20ppm. The higher the CYA, the more FC you need to stay sanitary. Just make sure you are not getting those numbers from test strips before you swim.

The CYA may degrade faster with warmer water temps so heating it may help lower the CYA to more manageable levels.

Liquid chlorine is fine. The water doesn’t know if the chlorine comes as a liquid or a solid. The solid stuff is what has all the CYA in it and you don’t want any more of that.

thank you so much!

 

[Bperry]

Do NOT use test strips anymore, they were the cause of the problem because they aren’t accurate. Now that you have the TF test kit, you only need to test FC and CC (for chlorine) You can ignore TC. This means you don’t need to use the yellow OTO test and can just do the more accurate FAS-DPD test for chlorine.

If your CYA is really that high, your FC may be just right at 20ppm. The higher the CYA, the more FC you need to stay sanitary. Just make sure you are not getting those numbers from test strips before you swim.

The CYA may degrade faster with warmer water temps so heating it may help lower the CYA to more manageable levels.

Liquid chlorine is fine. The water doesn’t know if the chlorine comes as a liquid or a solid. The solid stuff is what has all the CYA in it and you don’t want any more of that.

One question I forgot to ask is if you were using non-chlorine shock in the water? That can goof up test results.

 

[jnbernier]

CYA doesn’t dissipate over time. Cl does. I’m assuming you know that. When I REALLY messed up in the beginning and got my Cl super high, I used hydrogen peroxide to reduce my Cl. Bottom line and you already know this, the only way to lower CYA is to get it out of the spa by removing water.

Do you know how you got to this high level of Cl to begin with? I’m assuming problems with the test strips???
Heck, I didn’t even know you could use test strips for checking CYA.

I got my liquid chlorine from Rural King. You gotta make sure you use the “right” liquid Cl. I didn’t wanna mess up so I bought “pool” chlorine. Some of the chlorine you buy has fabric softener in it and you don’t wanna use that.

Download the “Pool Math” app. It’s an invaluable tool I use several times a week.

You haven’t ruined anything. Like most of us have done (and will do again) you just made mistake. It’s a simple fix. It’s just not convenient. If you are like me, you won’t get a good nights sleep til you drain and start over.

yes, the CYA got high because I had test strips telling me it was zero so I ADDED cyanotic acid! thanks for the reply!

 

[jnbernier]

One question I forgot to ask is if you were using non-chlorine shock in the water? That can goof up test results.

I was, but I did screw up and use one that had chlorine.... just once, but it was not at the right time!

 

[jnbernier]

The chlorine level will drop. Ideally, remove the cover to allow for more dissipation. Many manufacturers caution against bleach. Manufacturers are trying to help their dealers sell more of the expensive maintenance chemicals.
Bleach will not harm your swim spa. Millions of hot tub owners use bleach as their go to sanitizer. Pool owners as well.

thanks so much. I'll take the cover off for a while. what type of liquid chlorine do you recommend?

 

[Gebo]

This is what I’m using. Ace Hardware has it.

 

[Bperry]

I was, but I did screw up and use one that had chlorine.... just once, but it was not at the right time!

You don’t want to use non-chlorine shock for an outdoor pool/spa. Using it can make the TC/FC/CC tests unreliable without some other countermeasures. So if the TC was crazy high but FC was normal, the non chlorine shock (MPS) may be the cause.

 

[SJPoe]

thanks so much. I'll take the cover off for a while. what type of liquid chlorine do you recommend?

I use Liquid Chlorine from the Pool Store (or Menards, or Home Depot, or wherever I can get it at a good price usually - Menards is usually cheapest, but they don't stock it at this time of year).
Basically it is 12.5% Sodium Hypochlorite...
You'll see it called Liquid Shock, Pool Shock, Swim Shock, Liquid Chlorinator etc. Avoid anything that says Algaecide or is 'non-splash' - the ingredients should be Sodium Hypochlorite...and thats it

 

[phonedave]

You don’t want to use non-chlorine shock for an outdoor pool/spa. Using it can make the TC/FC/CC tests unreliable without some other countermeasures. So if the TC was crazy high but FC was normal, the non chlorine shock (MPS) may be the cause.

Or the Frog system. Both MPS (non-Chlorine shock, oxygen shock, etc) and the Frog system make any sort of readings basically useless.

 

[Mdragger88]

If you’re only using mps (non chlorine shock) how are you currently sanitizing the spa? The cya got in there somehow (unless you put 100ppm of stabilizer in)
Tell us/show us everything you’re using.

Also, always follow the
FC/CYA Levels

It is safe for swimmers & equipment for fc to be anywhere between minimum & slam level for your cya so its totally ok right now.
With fc above 10ppm the ph test will be skewed so don’t test/adjust ph until the fc falls to 10 or less.
The fc will fall - the spa eats all the time.
Use it & let your bather load help consume the fc! (Rinse your suits after since its a bit high)
A partial water exchange is what you need (50%)
You need to come up with a plan for water exchanges anyway. It is something that should be done roughly every 3-6 months or at least once a year.

Iron Fill Water Filter - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

You mention that its cold & you’re up north so dedicated liquid chlorine for pools may be harder to come by.
You can also use unadulterated household bleach. It will just be lower concentration (usually 6-7%) so you need to use a little more
PoolMath will help.
No clorox/cloromax technology, no splashless, no flavors, no fabric conditioners.
Plain chloralen in the green bottle at walmart, dollar general etc. is ok. Some great value versions at Walmart are also ok.

 

[labrene]

I need help! (please). I am about 5 months in as a new owner of a jacuzzi swim spa. All of a sudden my Total and free Chlorine were off the chart high I tested with a different test strip and Total was off the chart high but FC normal.. I started reading here about CYA. Only the new test strip had CYA and it showed it was at zero. Sooooo, I bought Cyanuric acid and started adding it. ..... nothing. Did not raise the CYA and did not change the chlorine profiles with either test strips. I ordered the TF Pro test kit. it arrived yesterday. I tested my CYA and it is well over 100 (meaning it does not even get half way up to the 100 mark). I have to assume that the test strips were bad/not working when it read that CYA was 0? Now I am totally at a loss. I assume I need to drain my spa, but that is not easy. I'm in NH. It's cold. A complete refill is not really feasible. I could probably partially drain and fill from my well if I have to but that will introduce high iron and manganese creating a whole new set of problems. I'm losing sleep over this. I hope I didn't totally trash my new swim spa.

Exactly my problem too. I am scheduled to have my hot tub drained and cleaned next month so I will limp along with high CYA. Until then I will use liquid.

Things you learn and hope to never repeat. The test strips are inaccurate.

 

[tonydatillo]

I am very new here (so don't trust me ) and a new spa owner with my own set of problems from using test strips and thinking I needed to worry about pH and TA before anything else, but as I have learned from the more knowledgably people on this forum, why not just buy a drop test kit?

Also, I am very curious what you mean by "I am scheduled to have my hot tub drained". As a newbie, I don't know what the norm is, but the person who installed my spa connected it to the main drain, so I only open up a value, if I want to drain. He also installed a water spigot directly behind the tub so I could refill with a short hose.

 

[Mdragger88]

A purge, drain, & refill is a part of regular hot tub maintenance that should be done every 4-6 months or so.

It is completely diy friendly.
While having a submersible pump is helpful & makes draining a little faster its not necessary.
Draining is as simple as turning the power to the tub off and connecting a water hose to the drain outlet & running it out to where it needs to go.
Every spa owner should be able to drain their tub incase of emergency like needing to winterize quickly due to power outage or equipment failure in winter or encountering a leak.
When you’re done draining, replace the cap and fill the tub (generally should be filled through the filter area).
then follow the startup guide.

How do I use Chlorine in my Spa or Hot Tub?

If you have a question about any information within this Sticky, please start a new thread for yourself where you will receive very quick responses to your specific questions. Thank you! Introduction There are two main things to consider when maintaining your hot tub water, Water Balance and...

www.google.com

@labrene if you’re not sure where the drain is let us know your make & model & we can help you find it.

 

[labrene]

I am very new here (so don't trust me ) and a new spa owner with my own set of problems from using test strips and thinking I needed to worry about pH and TA before anything else, but as I have learned from the more knowledgably people on this forum, why not just buy a drop test kit?

Also, I am very curious what you mean by "I am scheduled to have my hot tub drained". As a newbie, I don't know what the norm is, but the person who installed my spa connected it to the main drain, so I only open up a value, if I want to drain. He also installed a water spigot directly behind the tub so I could refill with a short hose.

I’m in well and septic. I have a new hot tub and I’ve had some issues with it. Our hot tub dealer services tubs and will walk me through cleaning and refilling. I have done a partial drain to reduce the CYA, but it’s still high. Since I am on well, I have extremely high calcium in our water, didn’t know that so I plan to run my next fill, partial reverse osmosis from the house water and partial untreated. I don’t want to add calcium since we get it naturally. If have a brand new Hydropool 799. I don’t think you can learn the water chemistry until you learn what your water needs. Also had no idea about the CYA levels and how that affects sanitation.

My water is gorgeous, what gets me is the slight odor that no one else seems to notice.