Salt Water Chlorination & Failing Jandy Heat Exchangers - Please Help

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S

snetwork

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Jul 7, 2017
6
Canada
Hey guys,

We would really appreciate your expert advice and opinion on this.

We have an indoor salt-water pool that is running year round at around 87-90 degrees. We have a Pentair IntelliChlor IC40 Salt Cell that automatically adds chlorine to the pool.

Since 2017, we've had several salt cells and Jandy JXI260N heaters fail on us. Each time we seem to miss the warranty window and end up with another large bill.

Questions:
1. Would we be better suited with a liquid chlorine system for an indoor pool?
2. If we go with a liquid chlorine system, are we going to have the same problem -- maintaining the new system and the additional headache of buying liquid chlorine each week?
3. Are there any residential pool heaters out there that are designed with titanium heat exchangers? What options are available to us? Is this what we should be using for an indoor salt water pool?

At this point, we are not sure what to do. Is this issue purely related to water chemistry or are the Jandy JXI260N heaters simply not designed to withstand the harsh conditions of salt water pools?

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated and hopefully this will set us on the right path and help some others in the process.

Thanks.
 
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Can you tell us how you test your water?
Can you also tell us what you normally target for your chemistry levels? FC, CC, pH, TA, CH, CYA?
What kind of pool? (plaster, vinyl or Fiberglass)?
What was the failure mode of the heaters?
Have you cleaned the cells, and how did you clean them?
Are you in NY or are you still in FL?
 
We rely on the pool company to tell us what to do with weekly / bi-weekly water samples.

This is a vinyl liner pool.

The Jandy heaters just started leaking water, presumably the heat exchanger corroded and let go (no errors).
 
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snetwork said:
We've had 4 salt cells fail on us
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That's very unusual. Are the cells being acid cleaned frequently?

snetwork said:
We've had 4 Jandy JXI260N pool heaters fail on us. Each time the heat exchanger lets go.
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Also very unusual. What's the typical pH of the water?

snetwork said:
it is evident that salt water is highly corrosive
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It isn't the salt. Most likely low pH.

snetwork said:
harsh conditions of salt water pools
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Again, it's not the salt. If you were chlorinating with LC, you'd probably have similar salt levels, if not higher.

snetwork said:
We rely on the pool company to tell us what to do with weekly / bi-weekly water samples.
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This is a likely culprit. Their testing and treatment methods need to be examined.

snetwork said:
The pool company has cleaned the salt cell.
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If the water is properly maintained, there should be minimal to no buildup on the cell. Since it's a vinyl pool, I would expect relatively low calcium. The cells should go their entire service life without needing to be cleaned. Acid cleaning is an absolute last resort.
 
snetwork said:
However, it is evident that salt water is highly corrosive.
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s,

That is just a load of Bull Feathers.. The salt is a saltwater pool is about the same level as what is in your tears...

Heaters do not die from saltwater, or Chlorine, they die due to low pH..

Your problem is not the saltwater, or the chlorine, it is that fact that you let a pool service company take care of your pool... Ask yourself this.... Who is getting paid to do all these repair???

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Here is my hot take.

I would get a proper test kit and manage the pool yourself. Here are our recommended test kits. Link-->Test Kits Compared

Without knowing the water chemistry, this is all conjecture.

Salt Cell.
If you post the lights that are flashing we can help further. May be the cell, may be the controller. Post up the description of which lights are blinking.
If your "Pool People" are cleaning the cell with muratic acid, they are shortening the life of the cell.
Here is how to clean the cell.

SWG How It Works - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com


Heater
Again, without knowing your pool chemistry, I'm going to posit that your water is very aggressive. I had a heater fail, and it took me a while to understand how aggressive (corrosive) my water was.

After a NEW marine 316 ladder got rust, I also had a heater fail, and it took me a while to understand how aggressive (corrosive) my water was. I looked into measures of water aggressiveness. @JoyfulNoise helped me by pointing me at Ryznar Stability Index (RI).

I had been running my pool as follows: pH 7.4, TA 50-60, CH 110, Salt 3500, water temp 88. My RI, based on Carrier, was ~9...indicating very corrosive.

I've changed by practice and keep pH ~7.6-7.8, TA of 110, CH 220, Salt 3500, Water temp 88. My RI is now about 7.3, still a little aggressive. I intend to increase the calcium levels to 300 and lower the RI.

In my case, I'm convinced my water chemistry destroyed my new ladder and the heater. I will know next year, as I intend to replace the ladder again with new 316, and an RI maintained between 6-7.

Again, without knowing your pool chemistry, we just don't know. I suspect your RI is very high.

ryznar stability index

With the Ryznar Stability Index determine if your water is aggressive or not. Comparison with the Langelier Saturation index.
www.lenntech.com www.lenntech.com
 
Thanks for the quick response guys. This is the kick in the Rear we needed.

We picked up a Taylor K-1005 test kit and hopefully this is accurate (27,000 gallon pool):

Free Chlorine = 1
Total Chlorine = 3
pH = 7.2
Alkalinity = 230ppm (Pool company said it was 125) -- multiplied drops by 10
Calcium = 330ppm (Pool company said it was 418) -- multiplied drops by 10
Cyanuric Acid = 180ppm (Pool company said it was 180) - multiplied drops by 10
Salt = 3150 ppm (according to Pentair TouchScreen)

1. Can we successfully reduce the Cyanuric Acid over time with Liquid Chlorine or will it take too long?
2. Do we need to get the calcium lower? Pool company had a recommended range of 150-175 but the test kit said 200-400.
3. If you recommend a partial drain, how much would you drain? We are on well water so what hose attachments should we buy to remove metals and sediment when filling the pool? Our well water has heavy iron in it.

Our Pentair TouchScreen says "IntelliChlor 1, Clean & Inspect Cell". The cells are not being cleaned regularly. The pool company suggested cleaning when we got this message and we are not sure what they did when cleaning. Once we get the pool chemistry in order we will test this again.
 
The K-1005 is not one of our recommended kits. You need to add a TAYLOR K-1515, FAS-DPD test for FC. You also need a K-1766 Salt Test.

The CYA test is not a drop test, it isa turbidity test. Follow the instructions and redo the CYA test (See #8, if your CYA is >= 90 on the first test.
www.troublefreepool.com

CYA - Cyanuric Acid Test

Cyanuric Acid (CYA) is the chemical name for what is commonly referred to as Stabilizer … Read more…
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

The only way to lower CYA is to replace water. If you test correctly and your CYA is indeed 180, read the "No Drain Water Exchange" in the Draining Wiki.

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Calcium is fine. You want at least 200 for the heater. What is the CH of your fill water.

The “Inspect Cell” light flashes when the cell cannot maintain adequate chlorine production. This can be due to low salt, cold water or a dying cell. Production stops when the light is flashing. Is the "Inspect cell" light flashing on the IC? I would suggest you get the K-1766 salt test and test the salt level properly. If it is low, I'd raise the salt level to 3,800 ppm and then trying again. Verify the salt level using the Taylor K-1766 salt test kit, don't just assume the Pentair Touchscreen is correct. If the Cell light continues to flash with the salt at a definite 3,800 ppm, you probably need a new cell.
 
I'd redo the TA test too and take your time. Smaller droplets = a higher drop count= higher TA number. Proper droplets = larger and fewer drop counts=lower more realistic TA outcome. Not sure of your kit but a new TA reagent has a static charge which manipulates the droplet size therefore, between every droplet you need to right up the droplet bottle, wipe with a moist paper towel and go it again. Several points here, a) droplet bottle needs to be perfectly inverted , b) let the droplet fall off under its own force.
c) between droplets you need to swirl vial well that's why we recommend the Speed stirr
 

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OK so just to confirm, being in Canada, I will need to order all of the below?

Taylor K-2006C -- https://www.amazon.ca/Taylor-K-2006C-Complete-Swimming-Alkalinity/dp/B0002IXIJ0
Taylor K-1766 -- https://www.amazon.ca/TAYLOR-TECHNOLOGIES-K-1766-CHLORIDE-WATER/dp/B001DO35EU
Taylor 9265 Magnetic Stirrer Speedstir -- Amazon.com

If we need to do a partial drain -- what hose attachments should we buy to remove metals and sediment when filling the pool? We are on well water and it has heavy iron in it. Would a couple of these work? Pleatco PureStart Pro Pre-Fill Filter (Up to 10,000 Gallons) | Pool Supplies Canada
 
My goodness, 4 heaters and 4 cells in 7 years. This likely ranks up there in the pool service malpractice hall of fame!
200w.gif
 
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OK so buy these for filtering the well water when filling the pool? Does anybody have the thread handy so I can see what fittings he had to buy to attach the two big blue filter housings together and make it compatible with a hose?

10" Big Blue Filter Housing -- https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0045LUE4W/
Pentek WP5BB97P String-Wound Polypropylene Filter Cartridge, 10-Inch -- https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0030ZD7MU/
Pentek WP5BB97P String-Wound Polypropylene Filter Cartridge -- https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B003VT5V1U
 
The first one is 0.5 microns and has the best chance to help. The 2nd one is 5.0 microns and won't help.
 
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