Removing huge amounts of fine particulate matter

riny

Gold Supporter
Aug 20, 2020
194
NY, USA
Pool Size
10800
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Truclear / Ei
I'm getting frustrated. Here's a picture of my new patio, and man did it come out nice. Unfortunately though... the landscapers made a mess of the pool. All of those Unilock pavers were cut right there using a big saw and the dust just went right into the pool. That horrid color in the water isn't algae... it's massive amounts of suspended paving stone dust.

My water is at SLAM level and I'm brushing and vacuuming every day, with the pump running at high speed 24/7. It's eating tons of chlorine. I need to clean the filter at least twice a day, sometimes more, and it's gritty brown sludge coming out. My little cartridge filter is working overtime trying to remove all of that dust but I'm afraid it's a losing battle. I have no idea how many days of filtering it's going to take to even make a dent.

Is there a better way? I'm almost tempted to drain, scrub, and refill the pool but I can't bring myself to do it. I think we're generally thumbs-down on clarifiers but is it worth trying?
 

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Unless you have a vacuum to waste function before your cart filter, floc or clarifiers are out. No need to run the pump on high. It's going to take time. But curious about the high chlorine usage. Maybe just a coincidence to the paver dust as you noted, but watch that one. If it continues, maybe do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. You might have two thing happening at once - dust and algae.
 
Honestly I think there are still some leaves on the bottom of the pool. When they took the cover off, I have a feeling they accidentally dumped a bunch of the contents into the water. I've been scooping along the bottom with the net, just going by feel, and I took several buckets of leaves out at first. I'm not really finding many more now, but the water is too cloudy to see the bottom. I'm sure that isn't helping.
 
No robot in your signature, so thats out. I would think a robot would help a lot in this case. Otherwise filter, filter, filter. I would keep the pool at SLAM level just to be sure.
 
You can't drain it, you have a vinyl liner. You need to leave at least 18" in the shallow end or else the liner can shift causing major wrinkles and creases. They should have been much more careful in cutting those pavers and, honestly, I would be screaming mad at the contractor right now! It's their mess and they should be the ones to fix your pool.

Your cartridge filter is pretty tiny. Honestly, I would buy a new cartridge (or several) and try using clarifier with the old one. You'd probably have to baby sit the filter and rinse it out hourly as the pressure will likely go through the roof once the clarifier starts to make the dust particulates larger. Then, once the pool is clear, toss the old cartridge.
 
Ok thanks. It sounds like I'm in for a long slog either way. Honestly, do you think a robot would help? It was on my wish list for this year but I've been debating whether it's really necessary. I sort of like my quiet time outside with the vacuum, under normal conditions. I'd be willing to consider a robot if it would make a difference though.
 
I would not bother with a robot. That water is too fouled up with particulate matter. You’d trash a robot throwing it in there. A clarifier will speed it up but you’re going to need a new filter cartridge when all is said and done.
 
Silly question about "vacuum to waste." Does that literally mean using the pump to remove water from the pool and not put it back in?

I have a cartridge filter so floc is out. But I have a union connection between my pump and filter, and lots of left over 1.5" flex from the installation. So I could rig up a long line from the pump output that just goes down into the woods, and use the vacuum to suck up the floccy bits and pump them away. Is this how floc is meant to be used? Don't you lose a lot of pool water that way, too?

Would it be possible instead to scoop up the clumps with a net, assuming the water gets clear enough to see them at the bottom? (That's a big assumption... my visibility now is only a few inches.)

And another while I'm at it: let's say I were to call a pool service, or make the landscaper do it. What could they do differently than what I'm doing? Would they come with their own vacuum that doesn't use my pump/filter? Is there some kind of industrial filter on a truck that they could drive up and clean the water more effectively than my little cartridge?

I'm just looking at my profile picture, showing last year's crystal clear sparkling water that I got with the help of everyone here, and it's making me so sad. 90 degrees out this weekend and the kids couldn't swim. :-(
 
And another while I'm at it: let's say I were to call a pool service, or make the landscaper do it. What could they do differently than what I'm doing?
Nothing. Perhaps make this worse. Yes, you could disconnect the union after your pump and try vacuuming to waste yourself. Might take several efforts and you'll lose a bit of water not to mention chemicals, but it's an option.
 

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Well I just want to follow up with a note of thanks as usual... we swam for the first time yesterday, and our kids and neighbors spent close to 6 hours in/around the pool today! The water is still not perfect; my biggest problem now is a huge number of tiny crushed rock fragments on the floor of the pool, each probably the size of a pin head, that my vacuum just isn't strong enough to pick up. Suggestions still welcome on that one.

For anybody who may be dealing with a similar issue, I'll share some more details:

  • I thought I didn't have algae, just paving stone debris. I was wrong. Boy was there algae.
  • I didn't know this because the water was so dirty, visibility was no more than a few inches. I couldn't even come close to seeing the bottom of the pool. If I could have, I would have realized it was absolutely filled with leaves and rocks, and hay (which was put down to protect the grass seed). Once the pump was running, I started by sliding the net blindly along the floor of the pool, filling up several buckets of leaves and other Crud with each pass.
  • First priority was getting the water up to SLAM level and keeping it there. I was burning through about 6 ppm of FC per day in the beginning.
  • I tried to vacuum but the skimmer basket would clog almost instantly with leaves. It took several days of dredging the bottom with the net before I could start vacuuming.
  • I also used the brush, to brush down the sides and to stir up the crud on the bottom, hoping to draw some of the sediment into the drains. I did one pass with the net and another with the brush every day at first. I tried to brush down the sides as much as possible too.
  • My skimmer basket and cartridge filter both needed to be cleaned at least 3 times a day. I would always clean the cartridge (inside and out, using my filter flosser) once in the morning, then again after doing any kind of cleaning work, and again in the evening. Sometimes once in the afternoon as well. The amount of crud coming out of the filter was just mind-boggling.
  • At some point the water started to turn from green to milky blue. The visibility didn't improve but I figured at least the algae was finally starting to die off, which meant that hopefully I had gotten most of the leaves. That's when I started using a regular chitosan clarifier, at 3x dosage, once every few days.
  • I also replaced my filter cartridge at around that time with a new cartridge, and started using hairnets in the skimmer. Vacuuming was productive at this point, still picking up lots of junk but at least I could get through half the pool at a time before I had to empty the basket and clean the filter.
  • After about 2 weeks of this daily routine, the whole time at SLAM level with the pump running 24/7, visibility finally started to improve. All of a sudden one day I could see the second step. And then the third. And finally, like a miracle, I got my first glimpse of the bottom!
  • I still had to vacuum daily, and it was tough because I was kicking up sediment and re-clouding the water as I was going. But as long as I moved very slowly, I could watch the bright blue liner emerge on the floor from under a layer of brown dust.
  • A few days ago, I decided it was safe to stop SLAMming and start letting the FC drift down. We had a lot of sun and with no added chlorine all week, it got to 5 by yesterday morning which was good enough for swimming. Tonight it was around 2, which means I used up about 1.5 ppm per day with full sun and heavy usage. I'm good with that.
  • The water still has a slight cloudiness to it but I expect it will clear up over time, especially if we keep swimming to agitate the water. I'll finish the bottle of clarifier because I have it, and tomorrow I plan to start adding salt and fire up the SWG.
  • My first pump start was on June 1st and first swimming was on June 19th. That's 18 days to make it swimmable, and I'm guessing another week of fine filtering before it's 100% clear. Much of that time there was no visible improvement from one day to the next and I was really starting to lose all hope. If you're in this situation, the best advice I can give is: just be patient and keep working it. Sweep/brush/vacuum and clean your filter as often as you can, and keep your FC level up. Slow and steady and you just have to trust that it will get there.

If you're still reading this far, I'll share tonight's test results: FC 2, pH 7.8, TA 110, CH 250, CYA 40, Salt 600 (naturally occurring; haven't added any yet). These are all within the parameters that Jandy recommends for SWG startup, although the pH is on the high side, and the TA is higher than Pool Math recommends. Jandy says 80-120 is good; Pool Math says 70-90. I've read many threads here on TFP about this, and the consensus seems to be: don't optimize for TA. If the pH is continually creeping up, then lower the TA until the pH becomes stable. Otherwise leave it alone.

Assuming that's a correct interpretation, I'm going to add some muriatic acid tomorrow, maybe try and get it to 7.6 and monitor from there.

In any case, I'm very happy to now be dealing with the finer points of water chemistry and clarity and not wondering if the creature from the black lagoon is living on the floor of my pool!
 
Yeah and I plan to convert from liquid chlorine to salt this week, which changes things. I have about 220 lbs of salt to add tomorrow or the next day (we have some rain in the forecast).

TFP and Jandy disagree on the levels though. The SWG manual recommends FC 1-3, CYA 30-50. The TFP chart says FC 5-6 at Pool Math's ideal CYA of 70-80. This is a pretty big difference.
 
You don't have a SWG running yet, though. Those levels are for when you have continuous chlorine pumping into the pool. Follow the chart for non-SWG now, and after your SWG is up and running, follow the TFP chart for that. Don't worry about what the Jandy manual says about what level to maintain.
 
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