Hi - I'm a first-time pool owner in Southborough, MA (we will be getting our outdoor pool by the end of this summer). We're going to be installing a 20 x 40 pool with a connected, additional 8 X 10 sun ledge. We are debating heavily between a 400,000 btu propane heater (don't have natural gas) and an electric heat pump (looking at the pentair ultra temp 140 heat pump). Since this is our first pool, i'm not really sure how often we'll use it but i'm estimating that we'll use it about 3 to 4 times per week from mid-May to mid-sept (depending on whether it is pool weather ). I don't currently have solar panels but do plan on getting them one day since the back of my house gets a lot of sun (will likely lease, not fully buy). Based on my situation, I was wondering if there is a clear winner in terms of pool heater - the cost of propane is fairly high so i'm inclined to think that electric heat pump is the way to go but am not sure if it is worthwhile with using it 3 to 4 times per week. Thanks in advance.
Propane vs. Electric Heat Pump in Massachusetts
- Thread starter Sagar M
- Start date
Hey Sagar and Welcome !!!!
A 140k BTU heat pump will stop working much sooner in the extended season than a 400k BTU gas heater. so the gas heater is king at extending the season
The heat pump is king at efficiently making an already warm pool even warmer during the regular season.
There are plenty of reasons to go with the heat pump, such as the PV solar which would reduce the usage costs, or expensive propane. But if you go that route, go in with your eyes wide open that the heat pump has more limitations than the gas heater.
It takes BTUs to heat a pool and you already have 2 strikes against you with a large pool in a cool climate.
A 140k BTU heat pump will stop working much sooner in the extended season than a 400k BTU gas heater. so the gas heater is king at extending the season
The heat pump is king at efficiently making an already warm pool even warmer during the regular season.
There are plenty of reasons to go with the heat pump, such as the PV solar which would reduce the usage costs, or expensive propane. But if you go that route, go in with your eyes wide open that the heat pump has more limitations than the gas heater.
Thank you! Our main goal is to heat it in the most cost-effective way possible from mid-May to mid-September as the max duration (if pool weather extends beyond memorial day to labor day). I'm estimating that we'd use it 3-4 times per week at max. Propane is the only alternative and the cost of it is certainly a driver. I don't anticipate trying to use the pool when it is cooler - we would only really do it if the day is going to reach comfortable pool weather of 70 degrees or more.
Thank you! In your opinion, with respect to extended season, would that include the two weeks before memorial day and two weeks after labor day where the heat pump will fail me? That is the most we'd extend assuming the weather holds well of course.
I live in pittsburgh. And had a heat pump for 4 years. It takes way too long to heat the water and does not work well when the nights get cool. I switched to a gas heater and there is a world of difference. The gas heater can raise the tempeture 2 to 3 degree per hour and I can start it the day i need it for a pool party.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 64,776
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
If you have a heat pump in your area you need to run your pool pump 24/7 and use the heat pump to maintain the water temperature you want.
The heat pump will be slow to heat the water to your desired temperature in May and can take many days. Once you get the pool to temperature then you let the HP run as necessary to maintain it until September.
It does not matter how much you use your pool. For your climate the HP is not heat on demand where you run the heater before using the pool.
A gas heater can be heat on demand.
A pool cover is really necessary with a Heat Pump to not lose heat from the pool on cold nights. And the pool cover will prevent evaporation from the warm water.
With a solar PV system you can run the Heat Pump 24/7 at little to no cost during the day but you will need a Tesla type battery wall to power the HP at night when it will run more.
The heat pump will be slow to heat the water to your desired temperature in May and can take many days. Once you get the pool to temperature then you let the HP run as necessary to maintain it until September.
It does not matter how much you use your pool. For your climate the HP is not heat on demand where you run the heater before using the pool.
A gas heater can be heat on demand.
A pool cover is really necessary with a Heat Pump to not lose heat from the pool on cold nights. And the pool cover will prevent evaporation from the warm water.
With a solar PV system you can run the Heat Pump 24/7 at little to no cost during the day but you will need a Tesla type battery wall to power the HP at night when it will run more.
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Had natural gas been an option, it would be preferred. With natural gas out you’re going to run into issues. The goals you described really do tend to match the goals we set several years ago when we opted for a heat pump in our pool. I do suspect you’ll be shocked how well the can work, with the right expectations.
With a heat pump you’re not going to warm things up instantly. You’re also not going to have any luck warming things up when it’s cold. That said, they kick butt warming things up a few degrees when it’s warmer out. We tend to run ours at about 85° from roughly Mid-May until the kids go back to school. After that we notice it’s just not used as much so we turn things off. The heat pump does tend to run a ton early in the season but by Mid-June we notice a massive decline in the amount of time it’s running. Normally once everything warms up I’d estimate ours runs 5 to 6 hours a day to maintain an 85° temperature.
With a heat pump you’re not going to warm things up instantly. You’re also not going to have any luck warming things up when it’s cold. That said, they kick butt warming things up a few degrees when it’s warmer out. We tend to run ours at about 85° from roughly Mid-May until the kids go back to school. After that we notice it’s just not used as much so we turn things off. The heat pump does tend to run a ton early in the season but by Mid-June we notice a massive decline in the amount of time it’s running. Normally once everything warms up I’d estimate ours runs 5 to 6 hours a day to maintain an 85° temperature.
That's exactly it. If it's a cool year, the heat pump may not be able to overcome the weather. If it's a warm year, or a normal one, it should get you a couple weeks on either end of the season.
Toxophilite
Silver Supporter
What is propane cost per gallon in your area. Where I'm at in Texas, it's about $3.29/gallon. Has been higher at times lately. My 400K takes about 4 gallons per hour. Needless to say, I only heat my spa with it.
Thanks for the insights. What time of the year did the heat pump struggle for you? Did you have it on constantly or just when needed? I would ideally do gas but only have propane as an option, which is pricey.
Thanks - does it struggle to heat your pool in mid-May? I recognize it may take days to get there initially but was wondering if it has trouble getting to the desired temperature of 85 starting May 15th or so.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,678
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
As others have mentioned, the one thing to understand about heating pools in your part of the country - you’re going to need a solar blanket to retain the heat or else it will all be a total waste. That means you need to build your pool with the cover already in mind. If you want to spend the big $$$ and get an autocover, that’s an option but it needs to be planned for upfront. If you don’t want to break the bank on an autocover then you need to layout the pool so that you can easily deploy a standard solar cover using a reel system. You also need to have storage set aside for that reel and cover.
Once you wrap your head around that and see how the build goes, then you might have a better feel for what kind of heater you want. You can run all the service lines for heaters now (gas line from the tank and conduit for the dedicated 60A electrical feed you’ll need for a heat pump) and then decide later.
Once you wrap your head around that and see how the build goes, then you might have a better feel for what kind of heater you want. You can run all the service lines for heaters now (gas line from the tank and conduit for the dedicated 60A electrical feed you’ll need for a heat pump) and then decide later.
It all depended on the weather. If it was 50s/60s mine barely broke even or the pool lost more than the HP produced. Of course the 5 years I tried my experiment were cooler ones and the last several have been warmer ones since. Lol.
We moved and if I get another heater it will be gas because that way the seasonal weather matters alot less if we want to swim on late weekend # 4, or a June party is unseasonably cool that week. The bulk of the regular season didn't need any help because we weren't 'the pool needs to be 85 to swim people'
So much of this depends on the weather. Quickly looking your weather appears to be in the 50’s as a low up to around 75° as a high. This weather is a lot like we see. Mid-May we do sometimes kick the heater on to toss the kids in while other times we don’t. In Mid-May it did need to run a ton to hit swim temps……but I suspect it’s still much cheaper than running propane for an hour or two.
This was the #1, #2, and #3 reason we got a heater. The pool never did get warm enough for the old folks to swim……so we gave it some help.
Bill1974
Well-known member
- Jun 18, 2014
- 654
- Pool Size
- 32000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
I was in the same situration. I have natural gas available, but it was going to be at least~10K just to get the gas line where I needed it (this was running a second service just for the pool, tapping into my existing would involve going though the house or around it, both have numerous obstacles). I installed conduit under the pool patio to run a gas line in case I ever go that way later on. For now I ran a 100A 240V service to cover me for a HP (this only cost ~$1500 for to go ~200 ft).
A cover is needed for sure with a HP and would be helpful for a gas heater too. I did the math and the HP is cheaper to operate for me (with Long Island gas and electric rates). The HP should be a little more than half the operating cost than NG per btu. Propane for me is probably triple the cost of NG. I don't have PV but that would be a consideration when I add a HP. A dark liner would probably help too. I noticed a pretty good difference between my old faded liner and the new one.
A cover is needed for sure with a HP and would be helpful for a gas heater too. I did the math and the HP is cheaper to operate for me (with Long Island gas and electric rates). The HP should be a little more than half the operating cost than NG per btu. Propane for me is probably triple the cost of NG. I don't have PV but that would be a consideration when I add a HP. A dark liner would probably help too. I noticed a pretty good difference between my old faded liner and the new one.
Toxophilite
Silver Supporter
If you don't have a spa to heat, I would go with a heat pump and cover and never look back. Propane is the most expensive way to heat a pool. Yes, it will extend the season a bit on times a heat pump can't keep up, but the cost to operate is just insane.
Hello Sagar from Southborough! Fellow MA resident here. Since you say this is your first pool, let me give you my hard-won advice. You will need a solar cover either way. I have what amounts to a heat pump with a solar cover and my pool is 90 all summer. It would go higher but my thermostat cuts out at that. If you plan to use the pool 3-4x a week, you will basically need to keep the pool the temp you want it at all times -- you will be throwing money out the window (like CRAZY) without a solar cover.
Now -- ask anyone here. Solar covers SUCK. We hate them, universally. Except they are ridiculsouly useful. So -- If I were building a new pool. I would ABSOLUTELY get a built-in autocover and cover the pool each night. That would be the single biggest convenience (only after my pool cleaning robot) I wish I had.
As for propane vs heat pump? If you use the solar cover, you won't lose much heat so I would probably recommend propane. That gives you the option of using it on colder days and "forcing" the water temp higher if you want. There will come a time in early october maybe where you want to have one final summer bash. With a propane heater, you can crank it up for that weekend and have a go of it. Can't really do that with a heat pump.
Now -- ask anyone here. Solar covers SUCK. We hate them, universally. Except they are ridiculsouly useful. So -- If I were building a new pool. I would ABSOLUTELY get a built-in autocover and cover the pool each night. That would be the single biggest convenience (only after my pool cleaning robot) I wish I had.
As for propane vs heat pump? If you use the solar cover, you won't lose much heat so I would probably recommend propane. That gives you the option of using it on colder days and "forcing" the water temp higher if you want. There will come a time in early october maybe where you want to have one final summer bash. With a propane heater, you can crank it up for that weekend and have a go of it. Can't really do that with a heat pump.
Thank you everyone for your feedback and thoughts. Appreciate it greatly.