Potassium Monopersulfate usage

[oceanrider]

I would like to hear from others that have solid experience using Potassium Monopersulfate.

I found a good article written up by a health department, that might be a good intro for basing discussion on the use of Potassium Monopersulfate.
http://www.medinahealth.org/images/company_assets/d98a6e31-3e37-43ff-bc1a-ecc84e8f1117/PotassiumMonopersulfate_b0b9.PDF

I understand that there are going to be members here that say just stick with using Sodium Hypochlorite to shock your pool, But If you have solid long term experience and working knowledge of this chemical I would like to hear your input.

 

[AimeeH]

Part of the issue there is that we don't "Shock" our pools. A properly chlorinated pool never needs a one time "shock" addition.

Welcome to TFP enjoy the reading

 

[pooldv]

From here, Pool School - Definitions and Abbreviations

MPS
KMPS
Potassium Monopersulfate
Potassium Peroxymonosulfate
A non chlorine oxidizer or 'shock'. It is acidic and will cause lower pH and TA. It adds sulfates to the water. Will not break down CC but helps prevent it from forming when used on a regular basis. It will interfere with TC and CC tests unless special reagents are used in testing since it WILL test as CC! A good choice to use in indoor pools that are not exposed to sunlight but really has no advantage in an outdoor pool. It is only an oxidizer and NOT a sanitizer and should not be used as such.

 

[oceanrider]

Part of the issue there is that we don't "Shock" our pools. A properly chlorinated pool never needs a one time "shock" addition.

Welcome to TFP enjoy the reading

Never?

Are you saying that a public pool with heavy bather-load, continuously maintained by certified professionals, never gets Shocked?

Or are you saying that your personal backyard pool that has very light or little or no bather-load does not need shocking?

What if I brought a large group of un-bathed neighborhood kids over to swim and pee in your pool for a good part of a day, might you shock then?

 

[tim5055]

Never?

Are you saying that a public pool with heavy bather-load, continuously maintained by certified professionals, never gets Shocked?

Or are you saying that your personal backyard pool that has very light or little or no bather-load does not need shocking?

What if I brought a large group of un-bathed neighborhood kids over to swim and pee in your pool for a good part of a day, might you shock then?

Yup, never. You obviously have missed Pool School (link at the top of every page).

No, we do not shock our pools. Using accurate testing we add the correct amount of chlorine to get back to the optimal level.

We base our pool care system on accurate testing and only adding what the pool needs, when it needs it. To do that you need your own accurate test kit.

After years of dealing with "pool professionals" I know that there is a lot of information they are not taught to get "certified".

You can read this for an overview: Certified Pool Operator (CPO) training -- What is not taught

MPS does have a place in pool care. Most often it should be used in an indoor pool that gets insufficient UV rays do eliminate the CC's from bather load.

 

[Mr Bruce]

Never?

Are you saying that a public pool with heavy bather-load, continuously maintained by certified professionals, never gets Shocked?

Or are you saying that your personal backyard pool that has very light or little or no bather-load does not need shocking?

What if I brought a large group of un-bathed neighborhood kids over to swim and pee in your pool for a good part of a day, might you shock then?

Can you define "shock"? Since you are using it as a verb, do you mean would I ever raise the FC level to above the target value on the FC/CYA chart Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart ? Yes! I usually raise the FC a little bit on opening. And to use your example, if I had 8 sweaty, unbathed kids in my pool all day, I might bump the FC a little bit (2-3 ppm) before they arrived, then test after they left to see where I needed to bring it back up to. All with bleach. I have literally never added MPS, Cal-Hypo or Di-Chlor to my pool, and have only used Tri-Chlor tabs when away for more than 3 days on vacation. Not there is anything inherently wrong with using those products, just haven't needed the things they add. I have never had algae or needed to raise FC to what we around here call "SLAM" level.

 

[domct203]

........What if I brought a large group of un-bathed neighborhood kids over to swim and pee in your pool for a good part of a day, might you shock then?

I would raise my FC to 20% of my CYA during this 'pee party' of yours, then monitor FC & CC afterwards.

Then I would go to your house and pee in your pool

 

[oceanrider]

Yup, never. SNIP

So you worked professionally maintaining a public pool and you never brought the pool up to Breakpoint level?

 

[AimeeH]

please tell us scientifically what breakpoint level is.

 

[tim5055]

So you worked professionally maintaining a public pool and you never brought the pool up to Breakpoint level?

No to both.

Did you look at the link I shared?

Breakpoint Chlorination
The 10x rule for breakpoint chlorination is wrong and only now some industry people are starting to address this as described here (dead link, sorry) and here, though they are still only accounting for the mistake of not considering that combined chlorine already used up a chlorine atom in combining with ammonia and they are not yet considering that there is still a factor of 5 error in their approach since the units used to derive the 10x rule come from chlorine (measured in ppm Cl₂) oxidation of ammonia (measured in ppm N) whereas combined chlorine is measured in the same units as chlorine (i.e. ppm Cl₂) where the Cl₂ units are 5 times higher than the N units (that's the molecular weight ratio between the two). The oxidation of a combined chlorine that is monochlorourea (i.e. chlorine combined with urea) may require 3x, but that still far from 10x. There also isn't any getting "stuck" -- one can just add more chlorine. When one has persistent CC, it is not due to getting "stuck" but from compounds that do not oxidize as quickly. More technical details about this are described in this post.

The handbook has a newer breakpoint chlorination rule, but it is still a "10x" rule, though uses a target FC as 10x of the CC rather than using an incrementally added 10x amount. It incorrectly states that adding less than the breakpoint calculated amount may not achieve breakpoint, not recognizing that the 10x rule is wrong when starting with CC (it's correct when starting with ammonia measured in ppm N units).

It is an entirely different world dealing with commercial pools due to specific governing jurisdictions (health departments and such) relying on old/outdated science. Heck, the relationship between CYA and chlorine effectiveness has only been available in peer reviewed scientific journals since the mid 1970's.

This forum is directed at residential pool owners and while many folks who maintain commercial pools are members and participate, they are limited in following our guidelines because of their local jurisdictions.