PoolRx?

[jerryk1234]

All,

We're a month or two out to having a fully functional 60-foot lap pool. The pool builder says he gives everybody a "PoolRx". He says it will make our lives much easier. I have read through the Pool School and studied the Pool Math, and there is no mention of a "PoolRx". The ads
for the thing say that it has magic minerals in it. Closer reading convinces me that the magic minerals are mostly copper sulfate. Plants hate copper, so it would keep the algae down. Wouldn't do anything for animal-type bacteria though.

Amazon reviews for the thingie are mostly positive, but there were a couple that said "It died my blond hair green".

So: Should I take him up on his free PoolRx? Or just eschew that complication and set up the chemistry per Pool Math?

Another Q, since I'm typing...

This pool will have an motorized cover. Our plan is that it will mostly be covered. Does that make it behave like an indoor pool. chemistry wise? It will have an SWG. We had a choice of a small SWG or an oversized one...I said "give me the big one, please". I figure the bigger the better, it won't be working as hard.

- Jerryk1234

 

[RonsPlc]

If it were me, I would skip on the PoolRx, and follow what we teach here.
Copper is a bear to get out of the water once it is in solution.

- - - Updated - - -

I would also maintain it as an outdoor pool.

 

[Richard320]

I think you already know the answer: skip the miracle fix-all.

If the pool is covered most of the time, then you can get by with very little CYA. You should have some, just for the buffering effect. Pick a number that you can read on your tester.

Do be aware that you might find CC buildup under the cover, so only test after the thing's been open to sunlight for a little while, otherwise you'll panic over nothing.

 

[mknauss]

No on the PoolRx. Search that term here on the forum. Not good.

If you keep your pool covered it will act like an outdoor pool covered. As it will be impacted by UV when uncovered, you cannot treat it exactly like an indoor pool. You will want to open the cover at least every other day for a few hours to burn off the CC. And when you do have it open all day for use you must take into account the FC loss due to UV and thus adjust the SWCG.

Will take some trial and error. You might be able to run a bit lower CYA level. Again, you may have to adjust as you learn what the pool likes.

Take care.

 

[tim5055]

This pool will have an motorized cover. Our plan is that it will mostly be covered. Does that make it behave like an indoor pool. chemistry wise? It will have an SWG. We had a choice of a small SWG or an oversized one...I said "give me the big one, please". I figure the bigger the better, it won't be working as hard.

You made a good decision on the SWCG. The metallic plates in a SWCG have a finite life span. When they are gone, it's over. So, get one sized twice as big as your pool and run it at 50% and you will get twice the life out of it. There is a minimal cost to upgrade up front, so it's money well spent.

The PoolRx has been covered, tell the builder no thanks.

Your primarily covered pool will work somewhat like an indoor pool and this is one time that it may be worthwhile to look at a UV System. Not for any of the touted "disinfection" (generally a false claim) or the claims of less chlorine usage (a false claim) , but to eliminate the CC when the pool is closed. CC is removed by the UV rays of the sun, and if your pool is covered, no sun. So, look into a UV system for this pool.

 

[Dirk]

I'll take it up a notch regarding the PoolRX. We've read here PBs using their own sense of proper new-pool startup procedures, and doing things like pouring in salt (for the SWG) on day one or two of your startup. And it's well-documented here that you should wait on salt for at least 30 days. Point being, it's not inconceivable that he or one of his guys will dump in the RX or something else, without you being aware of it, even after you've said "No thanks."

If it were my pool, and I had already decided to embrace and trust TFPC for my start up, and to help me determine exactly what chemicals to put in my pool, when, and how much, I'd attempt to negotiate with the PB that I be allowed to perform the startup and do everything myself. The negotiating is the part where the pool builder agrees to this, in writing, and is willing to maintain the warranty. He'll either jump at this (because he won't have to do it), won't care one way or another, or balk because he thinks he knows best.

If he agrees, then make sure it's clear to all his employees that no one is to put anything in the pool. Not for any reason, no matter how many times they've done it before "with great success" or whatever.

Then perform your own startup and make sure it gets done right, with the help and advice of TFP. This is how I did my pool. It's absolutely perfect. And the water is amazing. It's received only the following chem's, ever:

1. A sequestering agent for collecting initial plaster dust
2. Chlorine
3. CYA
4. Muriatic acid
5. Salt (after six months!)

That's it. No lotions or potions or miracle cures! And that's all it's ever going to get!

And my standard fare for new-pool owners: you get one chance at this, maybe forever. You can use your house's water meter, during initial-fill time, to help you determine the volume of water in your pool. It'll be far more accurate than trying to do the math with the dimensions (especially if you have a freeform shape), and knowing the exact number will be very handy for figuring out the quantities of chemicals you'll use. Let me know if you'd like more details about how that's done...

 

[jerryk1234]

I notice that Pool School specifies fairly high CYA for SWG-equipped pools. I guess it sort of makes sense - the SWG only has to keep up with the *change* in FC. High CYA would only hurt me if I had to SLAM - $$$ for lots and lots of bleach.

 

[mknauss]

With TFP you should never need to SLAM. I have not since we built our pool in early 2015.

I maintain a CYA of about 70ppm for my SWCG pool. In the winter it drifts down to 40 or so.

If I did not have a SWCG we would not have a pool. It is great to be able to leave (just finished a 75 day trip) and the pool stays chlorinated and functional.

Take care.

 

[Dirk]

Why is your plan to keep the pool covered? I look at my pool way more than I swim in it. No cover for me! Not during the day, anyway. Are you anticipating a leave/debris problem? Or is this a safety issue? (Kids? Pets?) Otherwise, let it breathe! Let it shine!!

If I was lucky enough to have an auto cover, it'd be open all day, and closed only at night to keep in the heat.

My pool is a huge aesthetic element in my backyard, and its shimmering water is one of my yards best features! I enjoy it year-round.

 

[jerryk1234]

Why is your plan to keep the pool covered? I look at my pool way more than I swim in it. No cover for me! Not during the day, anyway. Are you anticipating a leave/debris problem? Or is this a safety issue?

Safety Issue. I have two preschoolers. Twins, a boy and a girl. My girl is special needs, and she's not afraid of anything...even of things she *should* be afraid of. She also is not good at following instructions. We have had both of them in swim classes - private lessons for her, because she cannot be trusted to hang on the side of the pool while the teacher works with somebody else.

My boy, OTOH, has done great in his lessons. He can backfloat, hold his breath under the water and glide along. He has not yet mastered
breathing while he swims though. He'll get there. We will get a private swim tutor to come in and teach everybody. Well, everybody except
Mommy the 30-year lap swimmer. I do know how to swim, but my style is not good...and the last time I indulged in lap swimming for exercise, I screwed up both my rotator cuffs.

But I digress.... We lost a child once, we know how it feels, and we do NOT want anything to happen to our babies!

The current plan is for each of us to have a key to the autocover - on the same ring as our car keys - so if we're gone, it's locked. Period.

In addition to the autocover, we have a functional perimeter fence around the property. Mostly to keep out the deer though.

 

[PoolguyinCT]

I'll take it up a notch regarding the PoolRX. We've read here PBs using their own sense of proper new-pool startup procedures, and doing things like pouring in salt (for the SWG) on day one or two of your startup. And it's well-documented here that you should wait on salt for at least 30 days. Point being, it's not inconceivable that he or one of his guys will dump in the RX or something else, without you being aware of it, even after you've said "No thanks."

If it were my pool, and I had already decided to embrace and trust TFPC for my start up, and to help me determine exactly what chemicals to put in my pool, when, and how much, I'd attempt to negotiate with the PB that I be allowed to perform the startup and do everything myself. The negotiating is the part where the pool builder agrees to this, in writing, and is willing to maintain the warranty. He'll either jump at this (because he won't have to do it), won't care one way or another, or balk because he thinks he knows best.

If he agrees, then make sure it's clear to all his employees that no one is to put anything in the pool. Not for any reason, no matter how many times they've done it before "with great success" or whatever.

Then perform your own startup and make sure it gets done right, with the help and advice of TFP. This is how I did my pool. It's absolutely perfect. And the water is amazing. It's received only the following chem's, ever:

1. A sequestering agent for collecting initial plaster dust
2. Chlorine
3. CYA
4. Muriatic acid
5. Salt (after six months!)

That's it. No lotions or potions or miracle cures! And that's all it's ever going to get!

And my standard fare for new-pool owners: you get one chance at this, maybe forever. You can use your house's water meter, during initial-fill time, to help you determine the volume of water in your pool. It'll be far more accurate than trying to do the math with the dimensions (especially if you have a freeform shape), and knowing the exact number will be very handy for figuring out the quantities of chemicals you'll use. Let me know if you'd like more details about how that's done...

Hi dirk—

A surface warranty compromise is not a decision to be made by the builder or applicator, only the manufacturer can make that call. & that’s a snowballs chance in the Sahara.

The warranty of the surface placement is the aspect a builder or applicator has control over.

 

[jerryk1234]

You can use your house's water meter, during initial-fill time, to help you determine the volume of water in your pool. It'll be far more accurate than trying to do the math with the dimensions (especially if you have a freeform shape), and knowing the exact number will be very handy for figuring out the quantities of chemicals you'll use. Let me know if you'd like more details about how that's done...

*** I sure would like to know those details. First guess.... Note the water meter reading when you start. Note the water reading when you're done. Keep a log of each time you flush the toilet and do the dishes... Don't shower or bathe for a few days.

- Jerry

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Jerry, Skippy and I had a cover installed because there were too many stories in the news here locally about wandering children... yada yada yada. And my grandbebe is young and I didn't want to ever have to explain to his momma about any problems... so I get you.

I run mine as an out door pool with the exception of keeping my CYA on the low side for a SWG pool. Like 50-60ish. I also run my SWG at microscopic settings as it is sized for a 40k pool and mine is only 12k. 10% seems to be the best for us.

We open the cover to enjoy looking at the pool, but also it can go days closed when we're busy. I do always make Skippy go out and open it to let it breath every few days, especially sunny ones.

The real treat about covers is going on vacation for two weeks and just shutting them up and knowing all will be well. The SWG was on very low, with just a few hours on the pump. We just came home from 2 weeks in Italy and my first FC read was 9, and the pH was 7.5. I'll take that!

Maddie

 

[Dirk]

Hi dirk—

A surface warranty compromise is not a decision to be made by the builder or applicator, only the manufacturer can make that call. & that’s a snowballs chance in the Sahara.

The warranty of the surface placement is the aspect a builder or applicator has control over.

Thanks for that explanation. But who determines who is qualified to meet the criteria of the warranty? Is it automatically assumed by, say PebbleTec, that the builder should be the only one allowed to do the startup? And that the owner could not possibly be able to perform a proper startup process? I could see why they would set that policy, that odds are most PBs would know more about startup than most owners. I get it. Unfortunate that an owner who is more qualified, has to stand by and watch a PB (or more likely his entry level worker) perform a substandard startup. And I'm not assuming that is the majority of startups, I just know many come here who describe botched ones.

Well, as I've mentioned to others, becoming knowledgable about the startup process, by studying here, to make sure it's being done properly by the PB, would certainly be the next best thing to doing it yourself...

 

[tim5055]

that odds are most PBs would know more about startup than most owners.

From what I have seen owners come here and say their builder did for a "startup" I don't know if I would go that far.......

I admit, that statement paints builders with a very broad brush, but it is my opinion.

I had a friend move into the same city we were living in decide they wanted a pool. He picked my brain and he did take a lot of positive advice. But, when I met his pool builder I could tell the guy had absolutely no idea about pool chemistry. he was a walking talking pool store caricature. CYA was OK to 100, but you have to keep FC between 2 - 4. Why would the owner need to worry about chlorine, he has a salt pool.....

 

[Dirk]

*** I sure would like to know those details. First guess.... Note the water meter reading when you start. Note the water reading when you're done. Keep a log of each time you flush the toilet and do the dishes... Don't shower or bathe for a few days.

- Jerry

See, you're way ahead of me. That's the gist of it. My version has some plot twists, zany characters, some intrigue, but it's the same basic story.

Some tips:

Take pictures of the meter. Easier and more reliable.

Turn off your irrigation. Take a vacation from laundry duty. Go out to eat instead of doing dishes and running the dishwasher. (Those are the big water users.)

Discuss with your PB, or figure out for yourself, where full is. And mark the level with a piece of strong tape. It's usually half way up the skimmer opening. But if you try to determine "halfway" while filling, it's tough because when there's water in the opening, the refraction will play tricks on you. Much easier to stop at the right level when you're aiming for a piece of tape.

Logging the flushes is a way to go, but you don't have to be crazy about it. A typical water meter is only accurate to 1% or so, which is hundreds of gallons. So you're not going to get a perfect number no matter what. 20 flushes and half a dozen showers is only a couple hundred gallons. Whatever number you end up with, it'll be closer than any other way you could calculate the volume. And plenty accurate for testing and dosing. Trying to calculate a freeform pool can be thousands of gallons off, and that's really what the meter trick is meant to account for...

Closer to the fill, somebody will spell out things to do and not do while filling. Remind me if no one else does...

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Thanks for that explanation. But who determines who is qualified to meet the criteria of the warranty? Is it automatically assumed by, say PebbleTec, that the builder should be the only one allowed to do the startup? And that the owner could not possibly be able to perform a proper startup process? I could see why they would set that policy, that odds are most PBs would know more about startup than most owners. I get it. Unfortunate that an owner who is more qualified, has to stand by and watch a PB (or more likely his entry level worker) perform a substandard startup. And I'm not assuming that is the majority of startups, I just know many come here who describe botched ones.

Well, as I've mentioned to others, becoming knowledgable about the startup process, by studying here, to make sure it's being done properly by the PB, would certainly be the next best thing to doing it yourself...

Not all all to your first question, there is no credential needed to meet the manufacturers warranty. Key word is “ manufacturer.”

Again, its not a builder/applicator warranty.

There are bad actors in every industry, even in the graphic design field. Those that survive the long haul meet and exceed standards and best practices.

I can’t imagine a dealer sending anybody with a pulse to do a break in, on what is usually a $15k surface, but I’m know it happens.

Construction defect consulting is quite lucrative.