Pool / Spa renovation - Dual bodies of water or P/S combo? Want to keep spa at temp.

[laspalomas]

Dear gurus - I'm stumped and could use some input. What I want to solve for is a spa that can be maintained at temperature. Currently with the P/S combo scenario the way it's set up, pool water is circulating through the spa all day such that the spa is always at pool temp (ie. not hot).

Caveat that I don't know much at all but am grateful to this forum to the little I've gleaned. So, please feel free to ask me clarifying questions, let me know what additional information I can provide as input, or for that matter maybe I'm asking the wrong question altogether! Thank you in advance.

The system had been running as a P/S combo on Jandy automation. I'm changing to Pentair Intellicenter and don't know if I need/want the i10D or i10PS. Note, it is a salt water system if that matters.

We have a pool with elevated attached spa that can spill into the pool. I believe the way it was running previously was with one VSP running the pool and infloor cleaning most of the day. When we wanted to use the spa, I believe an actuator redirected the pump function to the spa. I do know that during the day when it was in pool cleaning mode, there were times the spa would overflow into the pool. There's just one heater, one filter. BUT, we have a second VSP that I believe kicked in for just spa mode for extra jets. And in reality we only use the gas heater for the spa. The pool draws solar rooftop heat all day.

We're completely open to changing up the design, perhaps dedicating the gas heater to the spa only to keep it at temp but also some configuration where the spa is getting enough filtration and SW chlorine generation. Suggestions on how I might accomplish this? Must it be managed as dual bodies of water or can it be done as a P/S combo?

 

[Jimrahbe]

L,

If you want the spa hot all the time, you will need two sets of equipment.. One for the Spa, and the other for the pool. Two pumps, two filters, two SWCG's, two heaters (if you want both heated). In this design, the spa never spillover into the pool..

You will need the i10D..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[laspalomas]

L,

If you want the spa hot all the time, you will need two sets of equipment.. One for the Spa, and the other for the pool. Two pumps, two filters, two SWCG's, two heaters (if you want both heated). In this design, the spa never spillover into the pool..

You will need the i10D..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks Jim. That makes sense to me. Since I already have two pumps I could separate those functions. I guess what I’m not following exactly…if pump 1 ran the pool system and pump 2 ran the spa system, could I still have an actuator direct pump 1 to the spa jets when we want that extra boost that we had on the old system? And if so couldn’t we also direct a little pool water to the spa throughout the week that way and get enough treated and filtered water to circulate?

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Jimrahbe]

Michael,

No...

You either have a pool/spa combination system, or a separate pool and separate spa system..

Do you currently have a pool with a gunite spa???

If not, have you ever been in a gunite spa?? If not, I suspect that you will be very disappointed..

If you want a spa that stays hot, the best thing to do would be to get a standalone spa.. They have a bazillion jets and stay hot for pennies a day.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[laspalomas]

Michael,

No...

You either have a pool/spa combination system, or a separate pool and separate spa system..

Do you currently have a pool with a gunite spa???

If not, have you ever been in a gunite spa?? If not, I suspect that you will be very disappointed..

If you want a spa that stays hot, the best thing to do would be to get a standalone spa.. They have a bazillion jets and stay hot for pennies a day.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks Jim. Yes we’ve had the pool and spa for a decade and very much enjoy it. Just rather avoid the cost and time to hear from 70F to 100F each evening. That’s what I’m trying to solve for.

 

[ajw22]

Thanks Jim. Yes we’ve had the pool and spa for a decade and very much enjoy it. Just rather avoid the cost and time to hear from 70F to 100F each evening. That’s what I’m trying to solve for.

Is your spa covered?

Do you intend to keep the spa equipment and heat running 24/7?

I think you will find there is not much if any saving in heating on demand versus running seperate equipment to maintain the spa temperature.

 

[laspalomas]

L,

If you want the spa hot all the time, you will need two sets of equipment.. One for the Spa, and the other for the pool. Two pumps, two filters, two SWCG's, two heaters (if you want both heated). In this design, the spa never spillover into the pool..

You will need the i10D..

Thanks,

Jim R.

One more question for you Jim - I understand the Intellicenters I'm looking at come with the SWG power center built in. So, the i10D board would have two power centers (or one powers both SWG devices), spots to plug in two heaters...basically two of everything that is duplicated to plug in?

 

[laspalomas]

Is your spa covered?

Do you intend to keep the spa equipment and heat running 24/7?

I think you will find there is not much if any saving in heating on demand versus running seperate equipment to maintain the spa temperature.

Yes, that's the intention. I already have the equipment or most of it, so there's no additional cost there. Plus there's the time aspect - ready on demand or waiting an hour for it to heat on demand.

 

[Jimrahbe]

L,

I am not at all sure the i10D is set up for two SWCGs... I don't think they are, but don't know for sure..

Also.. Not all IntelliCenters come with a built-in SWCG power center.. Only the ones that come with a SWCG..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

One more question for you Jim - I understand the Intellicenters I'm looking at come with the SWG power center built in. So, the i10D board would have two power centers (or one powers both SWG devices), spots to plug in two heaters...basically two of everything that is duplicated to plug in?

No, the 10D cabinet can have a transformer for one SWG. You will need to use an external Power Center for the other.

And the 10D normally does not come bundled with the SWG transformer and cell.

You will need the new IntelliChlor Plus cells for the IntelliCenter to control multiple cells. And I have not yet seen Pentair announce that feature so I am not sure the IntelliCenter programming for it is in place yet.

 

[ajw22]

A lot depends on how you configure the 10D system and where you order it from. What you want Pentair does not sell as a bundle. You need to configure and order the individual components to build your system.

Where do you intend to buy the IntelliCenter from and who will install it?

 

[ajw22]

If you are thinking of putting a filter, heater, and SWG on your spa jet pump, then understand you are adding significant head, aka restrictions, to the spa jets. That will reduce the spa jet flow and pressure you get out of it.

Consider adding a third pump dedicated to the spa filter and heater, separate from the spa jet pump.

 

[laspalomas]

Hoping the gurus here can point me in the right direction on a pool rehab because at this point our contract has me thoroughly confused. We are rennovating a number of things in the yard and replacing pool equipment. Unfortunately it seems like my guy didn't take pictures, document, or even thoroughly understand the current state before he removed equipment.

We have a pool with attached spa and some water features (baja step with bubblers). It was also built with a Jandy/Zodiac infloor cleaning system. The 6 port valve cycled through the pool infloor and one for the spa which spilled water into the pool.

Attached is a picture of the permit drawings, except that we ditched the 4th pump and attempt at swim jets. The Jandy automation system surely was running as a P/S combo.

Also attached, I've tried to draw my understanding of how the plumbing may have run for that configuration and utilizing our 3 pumps. I know pump 1 ran the cleaning mode, pool mode, and spa mode. Pump 2 was some sort of spa jet booster (and we also had a blower). Pump 3 definitely ran the water features.

I've included a couple of plumbing photos during construction - the spa area and the equipment area before pumps etc were installed.

Where I'm really confused:

• Contractor wants to add a new return to the spa. Any reason for this? I was happy with hot water coming out of the spa jets.
• He already added this new return to the spa. Could we connect it to tee off the spa jet return so hot water come out of both or is this going to screw up water pressure, etc?
• How does pump 2 (spa jet booster) work with the main pump (#1) when in spa mode? Are they plumbed to the same spa jet return circuit?
• I recall the spa having 8 jets (2 on each wall) but when I go look right now one wall has 4 holes - two additional above or below what I thought were the jets. Theories on why?
• Contractor is saying that I need to move to a dual body of water system with a second filter (but share the heater). Any logic to needing or benefitting in this configuration from a dual body controller?
• If I move to a dual body system can the controller hand sharing a heater, salt cell, etc or do I have to double up on everything?

 

[ajw22]

You have a spillover spa. Stay with a shared system configuration.

If you go with a dual body setup you need separate equipment - pump, filter, heater, SWG - for each.

You can have a dual pump setup for the spa with the shared filter pump providing filtered and heated water and a dedicated spa jet pump.

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[ajw22]

What is the size of these holes? They look too small to be good spa jets.

 

[laspalomas]

If you are thinking of putting a filter, heater, and SWG on your spa jet pump, then understand you are adding significant head, aka restrictions, to the spa jets. That will reduce the spa jet flow and pressure you get out of it.

Consider adding a third pump dedicated to the spa filter and heater, separate from the spa jet pump.

Thank you. Attached is how the pool was originally drawn for permitting although when building we removed the 4th pump and idea of swim jets. Is this configuration doign what you're describing - one pump for filter and heater (going to spa jets) and a dedicated spa jet pump (labeled here as a booster)? Do they literally pump to the same pipe at some point in their circuit? That's the way the concept looks to me.

 

[laspalomas]

You have a spillover spa. Stay with a shared system configuration.

If you go with a dual body setup you need separate equipment - pump, filter, heater, SWG - for each.

You can have a dual pump setup for the spa with the shared filter pump providing filtered and heated water and a dedicated spa jet pump.

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks. What does MD stand for or represent in the drawing?

 

[laspalomas]

What is the size of these holes? They look too small to be good spa jets.

View attachment 635673

I'll have to check but guessing 1"

 

[ajw22]

What does MD stand for or represent in the drawing?

MD = Main Drain on the floor of the pool.

 

[laspalomas]

You have a spillover spa. Stay with a shared system configuration.

If you go with a dual body setup you need separate equipment - pump, filter, heater, SWG - for each.

You can have a dual pump setup for the spa with the shared filter pump providing filtered and heated water and a dedicated spa jet pump.

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

MD = Main Drain on the floor of the pool.

Thank you. So the way the guys originally set it up was not correct/good/recommended where water was going from the heater to the spa jets? What our drawings showed as a booster spa pump - would it have pumped into the same jet pipes? Seeing 8-10 holes in the walls of the spa and looking back at the picture I attached when they plumbed...I can only make out one PVC loop. I don't see a separate spa return and spa jet.