Hi all, I've got a definite leak in my pool but I'm struggling to identify where I need to throw my money to actually resolve the issue. Located in Phoenix, if that matters. Pool is plaster and definitely shows signs of needing to be resurfaced soon (one rust spot has appeared this year; starting to see the gunite in some areas). No idea when it was last redone; purchased the house in 2018 and the pool generally looks old (home is circ. 1970s). Based on the bucket test results below I don't think my pool liner is the culprit, even though it looks a bit rough.
Bucket test water loss results:
Pump OFF 24 hours (waterline above skimmer):
Bucket inside: 0.5 inch
Bucket outside: 1.5 inch
Pump OFF 12 hours (BELOW skimmer):
Inside bucket: 0.25 inch
Bucket outside: 0.25 inch
Pump ON 20 hours (waterline above skimmer):
Inside bucket: ~0.5 inch
Outside bucket: ~2.5 inch
I had a leak detection company come out and they said all my plumbing lines passed, except for the AWL line. We discovered the AWL was leaking back in 2018 causing pooling in the grass near the pool deck; we had a regular plumbing company come out at that time and they said the easiest/cheapest solution was to just cut the water line to take the AWL offline. We had them do that because we had no extra money to rip up the pool decking to really fix the line at the time, and have been just filling the pool by hose since then and it's been fine, and the leaking at that time was solved. I specifically asked the leak detection company to test this line because I wanted to confirm where the known leak was for future reference if we want it fixed (see picture). We've isolated the AWL box with a plug so no water is entering that box anymore, if that matters. I don't think the AWL line is at all relevant to the leaking I'm experiencing now, but I'd love to hear if I could be wrong on that. Moving on:
Regarding the rest of the pool according to the leak detection company:
They insist the solution is replacing the skimmer box because it "has cracks and pulls dye" (see their pictures), however, when they came out to test they overfilled my pool basically all the way up to the decking (see additional pictures), WAY above where the water would normally sit, so IMO all the cracks they are pointing to in the skimmer box are way above the normal water line and are cracked because that area is dried out and never submerged. For the life of me I cannot see any cracking of the skimmer box liner anywhere below the normal water line, and I've tried multiple times to get dye to pull and nothing happens, the dye just sits there and slowly dissipates. So I am not convinced enough that the skimmer box is the actual issue to immediately throw the money at them or another company to replace it (they tried to pressure me by saying if I commit to them doing the replacement work within 24 hours I will get a discount). No thanks.
Tile line: LD company identified one small area in the tile grout that "pulled dye intermittently" and I patched that myself. I've inspected all the tile multiple times and I cannot find anywhere else that looks like it could be where all this water loss is occurring.
If I can get to where I feel pretty confident that skimmer box IS the problem I have no issues moving forward to get that replaced but I just don't want to do it without being pretty darn sure, because it's not cheap. Based on my bucket test results I'm wondering if I do have a plumbing issue that they did not detect? Do my bucket test results with more water loss with the pool pump ON indicate a plumbing issue, or is it just because there's more water moving through my skimmer that could be a greater amount of water loss through that during the same amount of time?
FWIW I have a sand filter and I backwash with a coiled hose into my yard. Waste line is not leaking that I can tell. Water is NOT pooling anywhere in the yard that I can see.
I feel like I want to get a second opinion from a different LD company but I want to see if I can figure this out to a reasonable level of certainty before dropping another $385. Should I go back to the original LD company and tell them I disagree, that they need to look harder? I did already tell them I was skeptical because I tried to replicate the dye test in the skimmer where they insist the solution to the issue would be, but they just told me I don't know how to do a dye test properly. Okay, they could be right, but their dye test occurred with the water excessively high and mine is being done with a normal water level.
Would isolating the skimmer line to the filter for 24 hours with a plug (obviously leaving pool off) help to narrow down if the water is escaping through the plumbing? That was going to be my next move. Any other ideas on how I could narrow down if it's actually the skimmer or if I have a plumbing issue? Or both?
Any troubleshooting advice is welcome! Thanks everyone.
Bucket test water loss results:
Pump OFF 24 hours (waterline above skimmer):
Bucket inside: 0.5 inch
Bucket outside: 1.5 inch
Pump OFF 12 hours (BELOW skimmer):
Inside bucket: 0.25 inch
Bucket outside: 0.25 inch
Pump ON 20 hours (waterline above skimmer):
Inside bucket: ~0.5 inch
Outside bucket: ~2.5 inch
I had a leak detection company come out and they said all my plumbing lines passed, except for the AWL line. We discovered the AWL was leaking back in 2018 causing pooling in the grass near the pool deck; we had a regular plumbing company come out at that time and they said the easiest/cheapest solution was to just cut the water line to take the AWL offline. We had them do that because we had no extra money to rip up the pool decking to really fix the line at the time, and have been just filling the pool by hose since then and it's been fine, and the leaking at that time was solved. I specifically asked the leak detection company to test this line because I wanted to confirm where the known leak was for future reference if we want it fixed (see picture). We've isolated the AWL box with a plug so no water is entering that box anymore, if that matters. I don't think the AWL line is at all relevant to the leaking I'm experiencing now, but I'd love to hear if I could be wrong on that. Moving on:
Regarding the rest of the pool according to the leak detection company:
They insist the solution is replacing the skimmer box because it "has cracks and pulls dye" (see their pictures), however, when they came out to test they overfilled my pool basically all the way up to the decking (see additional pictures), WAY above where the water would normally sit, so IMO all the cracks they are pointing to in the skimmer box are way above the normal water line and are cracked because that area is dried out and never submerged. For the life of me I cannot see any cracking of the skimmer box liner anywhere below the normal water line, and I've tried multiple times to get dye to pull and nothing happens, the dye just sits there and slowly dissipates. So I am not convinced enough that the skimmer box is the actual issue to immediately throw the money at them or another company to replace it (they tried to pressure me by saying if I commit to them doing the replacement work within 24 hours I will get a discount). No thanks.
Tile line: LD company identified one small area in the tile grout that "pulled dye intermittently" and I patched that myself. I've inspected all the tile multiple times and I cannot find anywhere else that looks like it could be where all this water loss is occurring.
If I can get to where I feel pretty confident that skimmer box IS the problem I have no issues moving forward to get that replaced but I just don't want to do it without being pretty darn sure, because it's not cheap. Based on my bucket test results I'm wondering if I do have a plumbing issue that they did not detect? Do my bucket test results with more water loss with the pool pump ON indicate a plumbing issue, or is it just because there's more water moving through my skimmer that could be a greater amount of water loss through that during the same amount of time?
FWIW I have a sand filter and I backwash with a coiled hose into my yard. Waste line is not leaking that I can tell. Water is NOT pooling anywhere in the yard that I can see.
I feel like I want to get a second opinion from a different LD company but I want to see if I can figure this out to a reasonable level of certainty before dropping another $385. Should I go back to the original LD company and tell them I disagree, that they need to look harder? I did already tell them I was skeptical because I tried to replicate the dye test in the skimmer where they insist the solution to the issue would be, but they just told me I don't know how to do a dye test properly. Okay, they could be right, but their dye test occurred with the water excessively high and mine is being done with a normal water level.
Would isolating the skimmer line to the filter for 24 hours with a plug (obviously leaving pool off) help to narrow down if the water is escaping through the plumbing? That was going to be my next move. Any other ideas on how I could narrow down if it's actually the skimmer or if I have a plumbing issue? Or both?
Any troubleshooting advice is welcome! Thanks everyone.
Curious, when the LD Co come out, obviously they appear to have done pressure testing, but did anyone actually get in the pool (or lean over), remove the jet eyeballs and inspect the return jet fitting inserts/threads coming through the wall? I had a tiny leak inside a return jet tucked up at the 12 o'clock position. If you simply plugged the return jet for a pressure test you wouldn't know if because the plug covered the crack in the threads. Only by chance did a tech double check and see a small crack in the jet. See below.