PB4-60 Pressure - how much head at the end of the Polaris hose?

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J

Jack Parker

Active member
Sep 13, 2019
27
San Jose
I'm trying to diagnose my sluggish Polaris-380.
Can someone say how much "head" they get from the end of the Polaris hose?
(disconnected before the backup valve... with blue restrictor installed)

I'm getting less than 24" which seems suspiciously low, but I haven't found a spec for the expected head/pressure.

-------- update --------
Solved: I found someone else in the neighborhood with a working Polaris,
and did the head test: ~5 feet! (which would be 2.3 PSI, rather than 23 PSI...)

-------- update -------
Yes, the pump was delivering low pressure; the root cause was:
The Polaris plastic interconnect hose was collapsing on the suction side of the pump.
(quick fix: reverse the two hoses, so the weak/collapsing hose is on the pressure side)
 
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If the pump is running normally I doubt it is the reason for your sluggish 380.

Is the pressure relief valve at the quick disconnect leaking any water?

Is the mesh filter clean?

Are any hose connections or swivels leaking?

How old is the 380?

After a few years friction builds up in the bearings and cause sluggish running. The water power does not have much torque to overcome any friction. Also, you can have a blocked jet in the cleaners internal waterflow.

Polaris sells tune-up kits and rebuiild kits which replace the bearings an other parts to get the cleaner operating like new.
 
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Thanks for your comments, everything else seems to be good.
(new hose, valve, jets all clear, etc)
The backup/retractor does not pull the sweeper, so that is another sign that it is not in the 380.
(the backup/retractor is likewise new)

As you say, with the motor running (and a new impeller) it is not *likely*
but I would like to get an objective measurement to confirm if it is or is not a problem.

So, looking for a simple answer: for a working Polaris 380, how much head do you get out the hose?
(or equivalently: what flow rate through the hose; but easier to aim the hose 'up' and measure the head)

Kudos if someone goes to their pool and does the test/measurement!
 
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Have you done the wheel RPM test as described in the manual?

You have the blue or the red disc in place?

If it is warm enough here tomorrow I may disconnect the hose and measure the head on my Polaris.
 
Check the inline filter.

The wall connection has a pressure relief.

The pressure depends on the Polaris head unit being connected.

How are you measuring the head at the hose?

You really can't measure the head at the hose because the Polaris unit needs to be connected.
 
JamesW said:
How are you measuring the head at the hose?
Click to expand...

My plan was to disconnect the hose from the Polaris, turn the booster pump on, point the hose up, and use a tape measure to measure the height of the water column out of the hose.
 
According to the performance curve, the head at the pump outlet will be between about 90 and 130 feet of head with the Polaris unit connected.

That is how you have to measure the head if you want.
 
Ok, yes; the graph would indicate a very high stream, which is why I say the ~2 feet I get is "suspicious"

Allen, very grateful if you can do the test.
If you get 10 (or 90) feet that will clearly indicate that my motor/impeller is not working.

[for the record: everything else is watertight; is why i'm down to questioning the booster]
I've run with blue and blue+ (reamed extra 1/8th) and with no restrictor; no joy.
(Hmm, i'll go now an see if the head changes when blue is removed... minor: an extra inch or so)

[also FTR: the wheel RPM is low (until I plug the directional jet, then wow! it spins)]
So getting an objective metric on the pump output will help me (and presumably others in the future)
to know "which end of the hose" has the problem.
 
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Jack Parker said:
[also FTR: the wheel RPM is low (until I plug the directional jet, then wow! it spins)]
Click to expand...

I think that is am important clue.

Have you opened up the 380 and checked all the water paths? There are hoses called the ‘Water Management System’ that are held in place by zip ties. I have had a hose come loose internally.
 
Yes, i have rebuilt everything.
Also: the [new] backup valve does not pull the sweeper, so I don't believe it is the WMS
(which I have removed, inspected, cleaned and re-installed)

Looking forward to an actual measurement of the head from a working pump
so I'll know when the pump is working.
 
Could you have a kink in the return pipe between the booster pump and the pool?

Any chance flex PVC was used in your pool?
 
Have you checked the impeller? This thread has pics of two broken PB4 impellers…

Texas big freeze - Polaris pump issue

During the big freeze in Houston last week the temperature got to 12F and we lost power. My pool and Polaris pumps were running at the time. When the freezes passed,my pool filtration pump started fine however I cannot get my Polaris pump to drive the pool cleaner. The model is a Polaris PB4-60...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
The impeller was new last week.

There's no 'kink' in the booster attach 'pipe' but if we confirm the problem is in the booster side
then i'll start dismantling some of the old pipe fittings to check for possible excessive corrosion.
(currently my suspect/culprit, maybe a piece disintegrated seal/bushing is lodged in there...)
But I don't want to tear into that if the flow is actually nominal
Want a metric for what "good" flow looks like,
so if/when I replace other plumbing I can know if/when I have achieved successful flow.
 
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How was the Polaris working before you replaced all these parts? Have you disconnected the hose and actually measured the GPM the pump is putting out? Is the pump cavitating (kinda hard to tell on a Polaris PB4-60 as they are pretty noisy)?
 
Thank you all for the wonderful questions.
This thread was not so much to diagnose all the [potential] problems inherent to Polaris sweeper.

I was really trying to get an answer for a simple diagnostic:
How much head to you get from a working PB4-60 ?
(at the end of the hose, with the blue or no restricter)

That seems soo much easier that trying to time/measure to calculate GPM.
[I'm an engineer/scientist, so I really prefer to get an objective measurement
vs extrapolate from a chart or make some swag]

If someone will do that measurement, I expect it would be a useful diagnostic for many people.
I'll give you rave reviews, buy you a cup of coffee, whatever!

I originally expected one of the experts to just reply:
"Oh, sure, I've checked that many times... It's generally around **** feet."


If ~2 feet is abnormal, then I'll ask about how to diagnose a cavitating impeller.


---------
That being said: the proximal trigger for this analysis came when I replaced the two [broken] drive belts.
The other cleaning was done in response to the PB4-60 seal disintegrating
(which was compounded by the line filter missing, so rubber got into the jets;
that led to disassembling *everything* to clean and inspect.)
Since I was in the pump, and had a new impeller in stock, i swapped that.

The hose and backup were replaced last spring; so not an issue.

The main problem with the sweeper stalling I've traced to the new belts,
they are tighter and so pull the front wheel a bit to the side where it scrapes the body;
that's been fixed by realigning the axel bearing to the maximal left.
(a hitherto unknown/unsuspected failure mode)

Still I'd like to know about the correct/working head from the pump,
because: the backup does not seem to have enough power to pull/drag the sweeper.
 
JamesW said:
According to the performance curve, the head at the pump outlet will be between about 90 and 130 feet of head with the Polaris unit connected.

That is how you have to measure the head if you want.
Click to expand...
Put a gauge on the plumbing near the Polaris pump outlet to see what pressure you get.

The pump wont run correctly if it does not have the correct resistance.
 
Thank you for the additional suggestions.
I don't have the fixtures/plumbing/gauge for that.

Noting that 23PSI would result in ~53ft of head;
Will be curious to see if that is confirmed empirically.

Do you think that with the [blue] flow restrictor installed, there is sufficient back pressure to prevent over-reving during a simple "head" test?
 

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