New pool owner - can I split drains without resurfacing

[JulianCaesar]

I am concerned about pool safety, in particular drain safety. Is it possible to split the main drain (and add anti-entrapment covers) without resurfacing the pool?

Hi all, I just bought a house in Palm Springs, and I want to get the pool operational as soon as possible. It is currently being maintained by a pool service as a regular chlorine pool (non-salt) and looks clean, but it is not usable yet because it's very cold.

The pool is gunite with plaster and currently has a Pentair variable-speed pump and cartridge filter. There is no control system yet. It does not have a heater. It has one return jet in the shallow end. It has a single main drain (with whatever was "safe" in 1974) on the bottom of the deep end and a skimmer on the side of the deep end. The deep end is 8.5 ft to the water line. The pool is roughly a rectangle. The length is 36 ft and the width varies but is approx 14 ft on average.

We live in LA (2 hours away), so having a control system in place where I can remotely turn on the heat is essential to maximize pool usability for weekend trips.

The current surface is plaster with a number of chips out of it, but they don't seem very deep. This is part of the reason I'm planning to resurface next spring. We also have some other work that may impact the yard so I don't want to mess with the pool's concrete till that's all done.


My plan is to upgrade the pool in 2 phases:


Phase 1:
Add heater, add control system, add salt water cell, add mesh safety fence.


Phase 2:
Resurface w/ Pebble-something, add spa, add more return jets to main pool, possibly update deck.


My question is what does it take to split the drains? Is it possible to chip out just a small area of plaster, then make a hole in the concrete, then repair a small area of plaster around it? Or is this infeasible?

One alternative would be to block or not use the main drain, but I'm concerned that the chlorine and heat would not circulate very well.

I appreciate your thoughts and advice!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Julian,

Why??? Just shut the main drain off as it is just not needed, especially in Florida...

I have two rent house pools that do not have operating main drains and they both work just fine.

If you are really concerned, you can add a safety cover and only use a single drain. New pools have to have split drains, but not old pools.

Good idea going with a VS pump.

Show me some pics of your equipment pad...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

You can split the drain and patch the surrounding area until the pool is re plastered, this is going to be a lot of work trying to keep the plaster damaged to a minimum and working around the rebar cage that will be exposed.

Or you could just not use the main drain and it will have little effect on the water balance.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Julian,

Depending on your plumbing, your current main drain may not be working at all.. It would be impossible for you to tell..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JulianCaesar]

Ok thanks for the info. It’s Palm Springs, California, not Florida, so until May-Sept, it’s a lot more chilly especially at night than Florida I would guess.

 

[ajw22]

How deep is the pool at the main drain?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Julian,

Sorry about the wrong state, I just do not even look...

I guess my main point is that you do not 'require' split drains, so why spend the money..

You can either shut off the main drain, or add a single safety cover.

Show me pics of your equipment pad so I have an idea of how your plumbing works.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Newdude]

I'd be ok with just a modern cover. One accident is too many, but in 10 years with ridiculous amounts of kids swimming and diving, not one of them would have been sucked into my dual drains if it was a single with an old cover.

Are the skimmer and drain legs plumbed separately to the equipment pad ? If you have the ability to split the flow with, say 90% skimmer suction and 10% drains, it matters even less.

 

[JulianCaesar]

How deep is the pool at the main drain?

It’s 8.5 feet to the water.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

On phase 2 you may be required to have the main drain of the pool meet specific requirements.

 

[reggiehammond]

Are the skimmer and drain legs plumbed separately to the equipment pad ? If you have the ability to split the flow with, say 90% skimmer suction and 10% drains, it matters even less.

OP - don't miss this... reducing flow to drain means you can run pump slower and skim BETTER.

 

[Newdude]

It’s 8.5 feet to the water

My guess is that anywhere it was ever an issue were shallow pools. Little kids simply can't hold their breath long enough to get down there *and* then put themselves at risk. The medium size kids get down there, touch it like grabbing a prize (at arms length) and have to race back to the top.

If each of the 10m pools in the US had 100 kid swimmer hours a season, that's 1 billion swimmer hours with a handful (?) of accidents. That's freak-er than freak accidents, and likely had other contributing factors like shallow drains. There are way more frequent dangers all around us to worry about.

 

[JulianCaesar]

My guess is that anywhere it was ever an issue were shallow pools. Little kids simply can't hold their breath long enough to get down there *and* then put themselves at risk. The medium size kids get down there, touch it like grabbing a prize (at arms length) and have to race back to the top.

If each of the 10m pools in the US had 100 kid swimmer hours a season, that's 1 billion swimmer hours with a handful (?) of accidents. That's freak-er than freak accidents, and likely had other contributing factors like shallow drains. There are way more frequent dangers all around us to worry about.

Good points! Thanks for the perspective. I think I'll be comfortable with just replacing the cover with a modern anti-entrapment cover until I resurface the pool next year.

 

[JulianCaesar]

On phase 2 you may be required to have the main drain of the pool meet specific requirements.

Yes 100%. I would for sure do it at this point, regardless of code requirements, if not done already.

 

[JulianCaesar]

Julian,

Sorry about the wrong state, I just do not even look...

I guess my main point is that you do not 'require' split drains, so why spend the money..

You can either shut off the main drain, or add a single safety cover.

Show me pics of your equipment pad so I have an idea of how your plumbing works.

Thanks,

Jim R.

No problem, Jim. Thanks for your help. I will take pics next time I'm there.

 

[JamesW]

It's cheaper and easier to add a device like Vac-Alert than add an additional drain if you are really worried about safety.

I would probably eliminate the main drain and add a second skimmer if you are doing a full renovation anyway.

Vac-Alert Saves Lives! SVRS: Safety Vacuum Release System

The Best safety products for your poolour products Vac-Alert provides protection against suction entrapment from pool, spa, and […]

vac-alert.com

 

[JulianCaesar]

Is there a particular safety cover you guys recommend?

 

[JamesW]

The cover has to be a certified cover and you need to know which model cover will fit your main drain.

 

[JamesW]

All pool/spa drain covers manufactured, distributed or entered into commerce on or after December 19, 2008 must meet ASME/ANSI A112.19.8– 2007.

The Pool & Spa Safety Act, or VGB Act, requires each swimming pool or spa drain cover manufactured distributed or entered into commerce in the United drain cover manufactured, distributed, or entered into commerce in the United States to conform to ANSI/ASME A112.19.8 performance standard, or any successor standard.

The Consumer Product Safety Commission has voted unanimously (July 2011) to approve ANSI/APSP-16 2011 as the successor standard to the ANSI/ASME A112.19.8 drain cover standard mandated by the Virginia Graeme Baker Pool and Spa Safety Act.

The Commission determined the new standard, ANSI/APSP-16 2011, was in the public interest, and incorporated this standard into its regulations.

This means that, effective September 6, 2011, drain covers manufactured, distributed, or entered into commerce in the United States must conform to the requirements of ANSI/APSP-16 2011.

Until September 6, 2011, drain covers manufactured, distributed, or entered into commerce in the United States must conform to the requirements of ANSI/ASME A112.19-2007.

Please note that, as detailed more fully in the attached Federal Register Notice, ANSI/APSP-16 2011 is substantively identical to ANSI/ASME A112.19.8 and its two addenda.

https://www.poolsafely.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/vgba.pdf

 

[ajw22]

The Drain Cover Law Has Changed

A look at the important new rules surrounding VBGA.

www.aquamagazine.com

VGBA 2017 - WHAT'S CHANGING IN 2021? - CMP

In 2008, the first version of the Virginia Graeme Baker Act went into effect. Now, in 2021, these safety standards are being upgraded again.

www.c-m-p.com

You need to know the specifics of your drain sump to know what covers can be used.