New Pool/Color Plaster Discolored and Rough. Can It Be Salvaged? Need Help With Options.

[Pvlax4]

Been lurking on the forum behind the scenes since I had the pool built. Love the community and the wealth of information. This site has made my life much easier in terms of balancing the pool's chemistry. When the pool was finished, the pool builder had a rep do the chemicals for the first month. They were adamant to have their guy do the chemistry and not me since it was crucial in the first month. I brushed the plaster 2-3x per day for the first month. Here is a timeline of the pool.

Plaster is French Gray with quartz added.

Pictures were taken same day the plaster was installed and an hour before the water truck came to fill the pool. The plaster company highly recommended to have a water company fill the pool as I went with color plaster. This was Dec 2022.




Two days after the pool was filled, the plaster started to discolor immediately. In the photos, you can see the stark contrast of the plaster on the bottom of the pool compared to the sides. The bottom was significantly lighter than the sides. I informed the pool builder and they told me to continue to brush the plaster 2x per day for the first month. As time went on, it continued getting worse.



Fast forward to today, 8 1/2 month post pool completion. The plaster continued looking worse. Throughout this time, the plaster began being rough, almost like sandpaper (not all locations, but a decent amount of the plaster). I'm very disappointed with the current state. I feel horrible paying a lot for this pool with all the military deployments I had to endure to save money.



I was finally able to get both the pool builder and plaster company to come check out the pool. I did some digging on the forum beforehand and brought it up to the plaster rep. I brought up the possible use of calcium chloride being added, organic color dye, hard troweling, or the possibility of incorrect water/cement ratio for the plaster. He had no idea what organic/inorganic, colorfast/non colorfast dyes were. He just said they use liquid dye. He beat around the bush on all these matters and chalked it up to "this is normal when it comes to all color plaster" and brought up the NPC articles about water chemistry. Of course NPC will back up PBs and plaster companies and put the onus on the customer. He mentioned I had mottling because the calcium was being "sucked" out of the plaster. I had a feeling he was going to resort to those defenses. I knew my situation would be a back and forth matter with no end in sight. I told him I understood color plaster would never look 100% and I just want to be happy. I wasn't expecting a total chip out and new plaster application. At that point, they agreed to something about it.

-Here is my chemistry results on 04Feb:

-When I finally received my TF-100 pro test kit
-If it helps, I live in Las Vegas. The SWG wasn't in use as the water temp was too cold.
-My PH was extremely unstable. I would bring down the PH to around 7.4-7.5 and no joke, 2-3 days later, it would be back above 8.2/8.2+

PH: 8.2+
TA: 130
FC: 2.5
CC: 0
CYA: 30
Hardness: 550
Salt: 3,600


-12 Aug test results:
-PH is still very unstable. I probably used 8-10 gallons of muriatic acid and by TA has only dropped 20
-Did not add any salt. Maybe it went up since temps are a lot higher now in the summer

PH: 8.2+
TA: 110
FC: 8
CC: 0
CYA: 70
Hardness: 675
Salt: 4,000

What do you think is going on with my plaster and what were the factors? Not sure if it's mottling, etching, or both.

My main concern is to get the plaster color as good as possible and to smooth out the rough areas. What are my best options? Is it sanding/polishing? Acid treatment? Or both sanding/polishing and an acid treatment. The plaster company proposed that they polish the plaster and follow it up with an acid treatment. Does that seem like a good course of action or should they do an acid treatment before polishing? Or just polish the plaster and leave out the acid treatment all together? Would appreciate any info and guidance!


Regards,

Chris

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Sand and polish the plaster which should get off the roughness and even out some of the coloring.

Do not acid wash the plaster. Sanding will accomplish the same thing and will not damage the plaster.

Accept any remaining mottling as cosmetic.

Plaster Installation and Maintenance - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Bperry]

Been lurking on the forum behind the scenes since I had the pool built. Love the community and the wealth of information. This site has made my life much easier in terms of balancing the pool's chemistry. When the pool was finished, the pool builder had a rep do the chemicals for the first month. They were adamant to have their guy do the chemistry and not me since it was crucial in the first month. I brushed the plaster 2-3x per day for the first month. Here is a timeline of the pool.

Plaster is French Gray with quartz added.

Pictures were taken same day the plaster was installed and an hour before the water truck came to fill the pool. The plaster company highly recommended to have a water company fill the pool as I went with color plaster. This was Dec 2022.

View attachment 522472View attachment 522474


Two days after the pool was filled, the plaster started to discolor immediately. In the photos, you can see the stark contrast of the plaster on the bottom of the pool compared to the sides. The bottom was significantly lighter than the sides. I informed the pool builder and they told me to continue to brush the plaster 2x per day for the first month. As time went on, it continued getting worse.

View attachment 522475View attachment 522476View attachment 522477View attachment 522478

Fast forward to today, 8 1/2 month post pool completion. The plaster continued looking worse. Throughout this time, the plaster began being rough, almost like sandpaper (not all locations, but a decent amount of the plaster). I'm very disappointed with the current state. I feel horrible paying a lot for this pool with all the military deployments I had to endure to save money.

View attachment 522479View attachment 522480View attachment 522481View attachment 522482

I was finally able to get both the pool builder and plaster company to come check out the pool. I did some digging on the forum beforehand and brought it up to the plaster rep. I brought up the possible use of calcium chloride being added, organic color dye, hard troweling, or the possibility of incorrect water/cement ratio for the plaster. He had no idea what organic/inorganic, colorfast/non colorfast dyes were. He just said they use liquid dye. He beat around the bush on all these matters and chalked it up to "this is normal when it comes to all color plaster" and brought up the NPC articles about water chemistry. Of course NPC will back up PBs and plaster companies and put the onus on the customer. He mentioned I had mottling because the calcium was being "sucked" out of the plaster. I had a feeling he was going to resort to those defenses. I knew my situation would be a back and forth matter with no end in sight. I told him I understood color plaster would never look 100% and I just want to be happy. I wasn't expecting a total chip out and new plaster application. At that point, they agreed to something about it.

-Here is my chemistry results on 04Feb:

-When I finally received my TF-100 pro test kit
-If it helps, I live in Las Vegas. The SWG wasn't in use as the water temp was too cold.
-My PH was extremely unstable. I would bring down the PH to around 7.4-7.5 and no joke, 2-3 days later, it would be back above 8.2/8.2+

PH: 8.2+
TA: 130
FC: 2.5
CC: 0
CYA: 30
Hardness: 550
Salt: 3,600


-12 Aug test results:
-PH is still very unstable. I probably used 8-10 gallons of muriatic acid and by TA has only dropped 20
-Did not add any salt. Maybe it went up since temps are a lot higher now in the summer

PH: 8.2+
TA: 110
FC: 8
CC: 0
CYA: 70
Hardness: 675
Salt: 4,000

What do you think is going on with my plaster and what were the factors? Not sure if it's mottling, etching, or both.

My main concern is to get the plaster color as good as possible and to smooth out the rough areas. What are my best options? Is it sanding/polishing? Acid treatment? Or both sanding/polishing and an acid treatment. The plaster company proposed that they polish the plaster and follow it up with an acid treatment. Does that seem like a good course of action or should they do an acid treatment before polishing? Or just polish the plaster and leave out the acid treatment all together? Would appreciate any info and guidance!


Regards,

Chris

It’s normal for pH to rise very fast with new plaster, and it rises even faster if your TA is above 60ppm. But if they are draining the pool to sand it then maybe wait until after that’s done to worry about the pH.

 

[Pvlax4]

Welcome to TFP.

Sand and polish the plaster which should get off the roughness and even out some of the coloring.

Do not acid wash the plaster. Sanding will accomplish the same thing and will not damage the plaster.

Accept any remaining mottling as cosmetic.

Plaster Installation and Maintenance - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

It’s normal for pH to rise very fast with new plaster, and it rises even faster if your TA is above 60ppm. But if they are draining the pool to sand it then maybe wait until after that’s done to worry about the pH.

Thanks AJ and Perry!

Based on that, I will recommend for the plaster company to sand/polish and leave out the acid treatment. I'm still curious as to why and how the plaster started discoloring at such a quick rate just two days after it was plastered. The bottom looks almost whiteish.

I will add the minimum acid to keep the PH in range. Hoping the TA won't be so drastic when I refill it.

 

[ajw22]

Hoping the TA won't be so drastic when I refill it.

What is the pH, TA and CH of the fill water you will use?

 

[ajw22]

I'm still curious as to why and how the plaster started discoloring at such a quick rate just two days after it was plastered.

Being Blamed for Plaster Discolorations? Don't Get Hoodwinked Some newly plastered pools (including quartz and pebble finishes) may develop either white soft spotting (also called "spot etching" by some plasterers), streaking, calcium nodules, gray mottling discoloration, spalling (flaking), or severe craze (check) cracking within a few months after being plastered, and whoever has been maintaining the water is often incorrectly blamed for those plaster problems and defects.

Diagnosing Pool Plaster Problems

White Spotting of New Plaster Pools The problem of plaster spotting has been an ongoing puzzle and controversy in the swimming pool industry for over three decades. The generally round, smooth-yet-unsightly white soft spots in new plaster pools have long been a source of contention among pool plasterers, and pool chemical service firms or pool owners, each blaming the other for the phenomenon.

Not All Color Pigments are Good for Pools Plaster products that contain “organic” pigments become bleached (loss of color) over time when subjected to chlorine (an oxidizer). But products with “inorganic” pigments generally do not become bleached.

Scientific Evidence on Plaster Spotting provides pictures and scientific evidence from the cement petrographers who performed “failure analysis” examinations on white spotted pool plaster cores.

How White Pool Plaster Turns Blotchy This experiment below explains how white pool plaster can become blotchy gray, and also have white areas mixed into the gray areas.

How White Pool Plaster Can Turn Gray One would think that when mixing white cement with white limestone aggregate, the final pool plaster product would always be white. But that is not always the case. Unfortunately, white pool plaster sometimes turns gray (or grey) either immediately or a few months after the pool is filled with water. So what causes that to happen?

 

[Pvlax4]

\What is the pH, TA and CH of the fill water you will use?

The water truck who did my initial fill used the fire hydrant across the street from me. Unfortunately, I didn't have those water readings. I wonder if the water from the hydrant is close to the spigot in my backyard. I will do a water test of my backyard spigot in the next few days and will report back. I will be using that spigot to refill my pool. If the readings are really bad, what are your thoughts on using the backyard spigot water to fill lets say 75% and the remaining 25% from my water softener?

I wish I took readings when the pool builder was doing the water chemistry the first month. I imagine the PH was very very high that first month.

 

[Pvlax4]

Being Blamed for Plaster Discolorations? Don't Get Hoodwinked Some newly plastered pools (including quartz and pebble finishes) may develop either white soft spotting (also called "spot etching" by some plasterers), streaking, calcium nodules, gray mottling discoloration, spalling (flaking), or severe craze (check) cracking within a few months after being plastered, and whoever has been maintaining the water is often incorrectly blamed for those plaster problems and defects.

Diagnosing Pool Plaster Problems

White Spotting of New Plaster Pools The problem of plaster spotting has been an ongoing puzzle and controversy in the swimming pool industry for over three decades. The generally round, smooth-yet-unsightly white soft spots in new plaster pools have long been a source of contention among pool plasterers, and pool chemical service firms or pool owners, each blaming the other for the phenomenon.

Not All Color Pigments are Good for Pools Plaster products that contain “organic” pigments become bleached (loss of color) over time when subjected to chlorine (an oxidizer). But products with “inorganic” pigments generally do not become bleached.

Scientific Evidence on Plaster Spotting provides pictures and scientific evidence from the cement petrographers who performed “failure analysis” examinations on white spotted pool plaster cores.

How White Pool Plaster Turns Blotchy This experiment below explains how white pool plaster can become blotchy gray, and also have white areas mixed into the gray areas.

How White Pool Plaster Can Turn Gray One would think that when mixing white cement with white limestone aggregate, the final pool plaster product would always be white. But that is not always the case. Unfortunately, white pool plaster sometimes turns gray (or grey) either immediately or a few months after the pool is filled with water. So what causes that to happen?

I'm thinking my issue is probably a combination of water chemistry and poor plaster installation.

 

[mknauss]

What is the pH, TA and CH of the fill water you will use?

130 TA; 250 CH; 8 pH

Fire hydrant water is typically ugly. Stagnant. No reason whatsoever to not use tap water in Las Vegas for an initial fill.

 

[ajw22]

I'm thinking my issue is probably a combination of water chemistry and poor plaster installation.

If you read the various articles in the links above you will learn water chemistry has very little effect on plaster after it is applied.

 

[Pvlax4]

If you read the various articles in the links above you will learn water chemistry has very little effect on plaster after it is applied.

In that case, I'm leaning the majority towards poor plaster practices

I guess I keep biting off on the fact that my PH is always so high which would potentially induce scaling if my LSI/CSI is high.

 

[Pvlax4]

130 TA; 250 CH; 8 pH

Fire hydrant water is typically ugly. Stagnant. No reason whatsoever to not use tap water in Las Vegas for an initial fill.

So there's a good chance my home's tap water may be a lot better than the hydrant? If so, man, I really got bamboozled into the plaster company making me pay for a water truck to do the initial fill.

 

[ajw22]

I guess I keep biting off on the fact that my PH is always so high which would potentially induce scaling if my LSI/CSI is high.

If you did not stay on top of your pH and keep it in the 7's with your high CH in your area you can get scaling and roughness on the plaster.

Your high TA contributes to the problems and causes your pH to rise rapidly.

Your local environment requries some special attention to a pools water chemistry.

 

[ajw22]

So there's a good chance my home's tap water may be a lot better than the hydrant?

Probably identical other then the effect of your water softener.

If your water started at CH of 250 and you were adding softened water as fill to replace evaporation I don't see how your CH got to 650.

If so, man, I really got bamboozled into the plaster company making me pay for a water truck to do the initial fill.

There are some advantages to getting new plaster hydrated quickly instead of over a few days that a hose fill can take.

 

[Pvlax4]

If you did not stay on top of your pH and keep it in the 7's with your high CH in your area you can get scaling and roughness on the plaster.

Your high TA contributes to the problems and causes your pH to rise rapidly.

Your local environment requries some special attention to a pools water chemistry.

Probably identical other then the effect of your water softener.

If your water started at CH of 250 and you were adding softened water as fill to replace evaporation I don't see how your CH got to 650.



There are some advantages to getting new plaster hydrated quickly instead of over a few days that a hose fill can take.

I will ensure I really keep on top of the PH when the pool is refilled.

I'm not sure what the CH was when it was filled as the pool company was doing the water chemistry for the first month. I received the TF-100 the third month. Used strips the second month My CH was 550 (month 3) and increased to 675 with my most recent test (month 8 1/2). I will post results of my tap water tonight or tomorrow.

 

[mknauss]

My CH was 550 (month 3) and increased to 675 with my most recent test (month 8 1/2).

What is the source of your make up water due to evaporation?

 

[Pvlax4]

What is the source of your make up water due to evaporation?

My auto fill is plumbed from my home’s water line.

 

[mknauss]

Softened?

 

[Pvlax4]

130 TA; 250 CH; 8 pH

Fire hydrant water is typically ugly. Stagnant. No reason whatsoever to not use tap water in Las Vegas for an initial fill.

Softened?

You sir, certainly know your Vegas water! Tested the water from my backyard spigot last night and my results were: PH - 8.2+, TA - 140, CH - 200.

My autofill is not plumbed to my home's water softener. I wonder why my CH reading was 550 two months after the initial fill. Perhaps, the water from the hydrant is significantly higher than my backyard spigot.

 

[onBalance]

Tell the plaster rep that your pool water has a positive LSI (CSI is for TFP folks) and from the beginning. That means that the water wouldn't "suck" out the calcium from the plaster. On the other hand, poor plastering mixing and poor troweling does cause the calcium to bleed out naturally, and that is what causes the plaster to turn whitish, of which he is responsible for.