New build engineering help!

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Paddy-bear

Member
Sep 21, 2024
10
Titusville, Fl
Hi. New guy. Had a home with a pre-existing pool in south Florida 15 yrs and did all my own work so familiar w/the basics but this is my 1st build (12'x24' rectangle) in central Florida near the coast. Soil here is predominantly sandy. Going in today to get into the finer details but had some questions on which I could use advice. Our decking is going to be a simple concrete/acrylic pour. There is a slope of about 16-18" to the backside of the pool. The general specs listed in Cody literature handouts are as follows:
10" gunite bond beam with triple rebar @3/8"
3/8" Rebar @ 12" OCEW throughout shell
Min. 6" gunite wall and floors (should floor be thicker?)
Independently plumbed/valved skimmer and dual drains
Min. 2.5"suction lines, separate air return, looped for balance
Lifetime warranty on gunite and in-floor components
10 yr on quartz (just couldn't afford pebble)
3 years on equipment, valves, lights, etc.
2 yr concrete deck, tile, coping
I'll know more after today's meeting. Are these general specs ok or are they pretty much "the minimum"? Any special notes on our sandy local soil? Also, I was reading about gunite rebound. Should I be adamant that rebound is tossed and not used for steps, ledges, etc.? Will ask about backfill but given that everything here is sandy should I insist on a gravel (#57?) backfill.
Thanks in advance.
 
Paddy-bear said:
Hi. New guy. Had a home with a pre-existing pool in south Florida 15 yrs and did all my own work so familiar w/the basics but this is my 1st build (12'x24' rectangle) in central Florida near the coast. Soil here is predominantly sandy. Going in today to get into the finer details but had some questions on which I could use advice. Our decking is going to be a simple concrete/acrylic pour. There is a slope of about 16-18" to the backside of the pool. The general specs listed in Cody literature handouts are as follows:
10" gunite bond beam with triple rebar @3/8"
3/8" Rebar @ 12" OCEW throughout shell
Min. 6" gunite wall and floors (should floor be thicker?)
Independently plumbed/valved skimmer and dual drains
Min. 2.5"suction lines, separate air return, looped for balance
Lifetime warranty on gunite and in-floor components
10 yr on quartz (just couldn't afford pebble)
3 years on equipment, valves, lights, etc.
2 yr concrete deck, tile, coping
I'll know more after today's meeting. Are these general specs ok or are they pretty much "the minimum"? Any special notes on our sandy local soil? Also, I was reading about gunite rebound. Should I be adamant that rebound is tossed and not used for steps, ledges, etc.? Will ask about backfill but given that everything here is sandy should I insist on a gravel (#57?) backfill.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Paddy,

Welcome to TFP! You've come to the right place. We have experts in everything from construction to chemicals. And we sell nothing so never conflicted. Just volunteers that enjoy sharing their knowledge with others... and hopefully help you avoid problems from our experience. Here's my take on your questions:

  • The specs you list are fairly typical but that's not really what you should look for. There are almost infinite combinations of rebar size and spacing with varieties of concrete strength and many of them work fine. What you want is a stamped drawing for your specific pool by a registered professional engineer. The engineer will do some optimization of ultimate strength, constructability, and cost. When the PE stamps it he also takes on personal liability for the integrity of the design. Many PB use a design that gives him leeway to make adjustments for specific design features. If you're well within this envelope it works. But for me, I require a stamped drawing for my pool. He can usually get this for a couple hundred $ extra and often won't charge you to do this or at most it's a couple hundred $. If the builder has experience in your area and has soil strengths from your area it's usually safe for him to use them. To me again, so long as the drawing is stamped and the engineer is willing to stamp your design with no exclusions for soil strengths I would be OK. But I am pretty conservative for designs so I get my own soil borings from a local geotech company. You can probably do this though your ultimate builder most cost effectively. I would add to your requirements an optional adder for soil borings if required by PE that stamps the drawing.
  • Do not use rebound for any part of the pool shell which includes any part of the pool including steps, ledges etc. The only place I permit rebound is for paver base. All rebound is to be swept up and removed.
  • I used paver base for back fill and material that was removed and saved for this purpose during excavation. But there are a lot of things that will work in many cases. Get the PE to give guidance on this and soil borings will help him give guidance on this. My soil report indicated 85% sand with remainder organics and this is typical for much of S Florida. It was also fine for my engineer to use as back fill. One consideration that needs to be considered is proximity to other structures. Once the excavation is complete one of our typical gully washer downpours can quickly remove material under nearby foundations. There are ways to address this but if present it needs to be addressed.
  • Think about several areas of equal importance for your project: design integrity, aesthetics, execution plan, and contract term & conditions. Make sure you adequately address them all in bidding and selecting your contractor.
I hope this is helpful.

Chris
 
setsailsoon said:
Paddy,

Welcome to TFP! You've come to the right place. We have experts in everything from construction to chemicals. And we sell nothing so never conflicted. Just volunteers that enjoy sharing their knowledge with others... and hopefully help you avoid problems from our experience. Here's my take on your questions:

  • The specs you list are fairly typical but that's not really what you should look for. There are almost infinite combinations of rebar size and spacing with varieties of concrete strength and many of them work fine. What you want is a stamped drawing for your specific pool by a registered professional engineer. The engineer will do some optimization of ultimate strength, constructability, and cost. When the PE stamps it he also takes on personal liability for the integrity of the design. Many PB use a design that gives him leeway to make adjustments for specific design features. If you're well within this envelope it works. But for me, I require a stamped drawing for my pool. He can usually get this for a couple hundred $ extra and often won't charge you to do this or at most it's a couple hundred $. If the builder has experience in your area and has soil strengths from your area it's usually safe for him to use them. To me again, so long as the drawing is stamped and the engineer is willing to stamp your design with no exclusions for soil strengths I would be OK. But I am pretty conservative for designs so I get my own soil borings from a local geotech company. You can probably do this though your ultimate builder most cost effectively. I would add to your requirements an optional adder for soil borings if required by PE that stamps the drawing.
  • Do not use rebound for any part of the pool shell which includes any part of the pool including steps, ledges etc. The only place I permit rebound is for paver base. All rebound is to be swept up and removed.
  • I used paver base for back fill and material that was removed and saved for this purpose during excavation. But there are a lot of things that will work in many cases. Get the PE to give guidance on this and soil borings will help him give guidance on this. My soil report indicated 85% sand with remainder organics and this is typical for much of S Florida. It was also fine for my engineer to use as back fill. One consideration that needs to be considered is proximity to other structures. Once the excavation is complete one of our typical gully washer downpours can quickly remove material under nearby foundations. There are ways to address this but if present it needs to be addressed.
  • Think about several areas of equal importance for your project: design integrity, aesthetics, execution plan, and contract term & conditions. Make sure you adequately address them all in bidding and selecting your contractor.
I hope this is helpful.

Chris
Click to expand...
Thank you kindly. I read your reply right before driving to Orlando for a pool meeting. They use an outside engineering firm that does stamp their engineering drawings including soil. The builder said they had some issues nearby on Merritt Island so they have been trucking in a course paver base material with compaction for backfill. He offered up that gravel is an option but it would be an upgrade cost to the current quote.
 
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Maybe some help from everyone on equipment being offered. Screen enclosed 12'x24' with a 3'-5.5' slope, 3 rounded corner steps with sitting ledge running along the narrow end. It's 8,700 gals. with a 36" sheer waterfall approx. 2' above pool deck. Plumbing is 2 1/2" suction and 2" return with 3 wall returns . Because we have been on the fence with whom to use they added a freebie at an open house event of Pentair in-floor cleaning system with the WAVE actuator valve and 8 pop-up cleaning heads using their AVSC rectangular main drain. We also "won" an Ichlor30 salt cell. The priced pump is a Pentair Intelliflow3 in a 1.5hp with App automation. So first...is the pump appropriately sized? Second...is the Ichlor30 adequate (rated for 30K gals) and how is it different from the Intellichlor line? Third...do I really need the in-floor system in an enclosed pool? Beside the obvious of looking at 8 white plastic circles on the floor and just something else to possibly break in the future is there a real concern on the extra strain the system puts on the pump and filter? I really don't mind doing some physical cleaning. Depending on the feedback here should I maybe ask for swapping the parts/labor cost of the in-floor and see if they will apply some of it (not all as it was "free") instead to a good robot and or an upgrade to pump hp? Thanks again. Very cool forum.
 
Still more questions-A water barrier should be applied behind the 6" waterline tile (maybe down as far as 10-12"?) but also should I ask they do the top and backside of the bond beam as well to prevent the moisture from wicking through the gunite from the top/backside and causing issues with the tile or effervescence through the top of the coping? There is a 12' long stepped water feature with 3' sheer waterfall on the backside of the pool that will be tiled...should that receive a water barrier as well prior to tiling? The images aren't up to date on the stepped waterfall in which the middle will be 7' long and 2' tall with the step-downs on either side dropping to 2.5' long and 1' tall. Thanks.
 

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