Leaking From Drain Valve Help

[YoshiMoshi]

I have a Hot Spring Spa, Prodigy, Model H, Serial Number H3E1249. It appears to be leaking from somewhere behind the drain valve. It looks similar to this.



My particular spa has one drain at the lowest part of the tub. There are two drains on my spa, located underneath the maintenance panel. One has a lever on the valve body, while the other does not. The one with the lever, somewhere behind it is leaking. Any tips on how to fix the leak?

I looked online for example:

Hot Spring Spas 30592 Drain Valve, Hose Shut-Off

To see if I could find a diagram for my spa of this part and what it is connected to. Under specifications, none of the diagrams seem to match my spa. But this is my closest one.



Part 10 and 11, I'm not able to locate on my spa.

Because it seems to be leaking from behind the vale, I think the valve is closing properly. Anyways, I was thinking of untwisting the drain valve with the handle from the tube adapter, putting new tape around it and seeing if that helps. The valve itself seems already pretty tight. I'm not able to loosen it or tighten it by hand. There are wrench flats on it, but I'm not sure what size socket I need. I would assume some sort of special one, with a cut out for the handle. Not sure where to get such a socket, but I presume it would be a specialty one.



It's in a recessed cutout at the bottom of the spa, so channel lock pliers would not help, not enough clearance. The only thing I could think of is a socket. If successful in removing the valve (if I ever find the right tool), I would be unsure how much torque to tighten the thing back down in place with. Anyone know? I would use a torque wrench.

If retaping the valve does not work, then I would presume it's leaking from somewhere else, further back. How do I troubleshoot or investigate further to attempt to fix this issue? How would I access the rest of the parts in the drain system to look for where it's leaking? I'm learning to be a mechanic, so jack stands, floor jacks, wrenches, so forth I have plenty. Not sure if I would have to access the rest of the drain system from beneath the spa? If so, I wouldn't be sure how to safely jack and support the spa in the air safely.

Thanks for any help or tips on how to fix a leaking spa that is leaking in the drain system somewhere.

Also, I might add, that this spa hasn't been used for awhile, and it came with our house when we bought it, so the history is unknown to us. However, it's an indoor spa. I do live in an area that gets below freezing typically in the winter. It sits in a room with no heat, however there's heat inside of the house that the room is in that presumably was always heated, because people were living in it, so I doubt anything could have frozen causing damage.

 

[RDspaguy]

Part 10 and 11, I'm not able to locate on my spa.

It would be in the equipment bay if you have one. Have to remove the side panel.

If successful in removing the valve (if I ever find the right tool), I would be unsure how much torque to tighten

Way overthinking it. It's a garden hose valve with a garden hose gasket. Get a new one, use pliers to remove the old one, tighten hand tight.

If retaping the valve does not work, then I would presume it's leaking from somewhere else, further back

This is where a hot springs shows you it's leaking. Any leak in the spa is likely to show here as it is the lowest hole in the side and the bottom is basically plastic.
Check the equipment bay first, most leaks are there. If not, you've got a big job ahead of you with a HS.
I stand them up, dig around a bit for anything obvious and open up the bottom, then put it on blocks to fill and locate the leak(s). Sometimes you still have to remove some non-removeable side slats anyway, but it helps if you know where you're looking first.

 

[YoshiMoshi]

Thanks for the help and reply! I did not see anything leaking in the equipment bay. Is it worth trying to just replace the valve? Start easy and cheap and rule that out before putting the tub on cinder blocks?

Also some follow on questions. The space in the hot tub, between were people sit and the very bottom of the hot tub that is just above the ground, I'm going to refer to as "the void". I assume that there is a lot of insulation in the void? If there is a leak in the tubbing in the void, is the void a water tight structure? Meaning if I just made a gasket around were the water is leaking from the drain valve, and didn't do a proper fix, it would trap the water inside of the void area. Would this be an issue, or would a proper repair be required to stop the leak?

 

[RDspaguy]

it worth trying to just replace the valve

Definitely, but that may not be it.

I assume that there is a lot of insulation in the void?

Hot springs are full foam, there is little empty space aside from the equipment bay. They use a hard, closed-cell foam to cover and support, a soft spongy foam to fill, and a plastic-like bottom coat.

Meaning if I just made a gasket around were the water is leaking from the drain valve, and didn't do a proper fix, it would trap the water inside of the void area.

It would just fill a little higher before leaking elsewhere. It is not water tight, but will channel water such that the leaking part can be across the spa from where the water is dripping.

 

[RDspaguy]

Ever wonder what biofilm looks like?

I picked up a 2002 Hot Springs Prodigy as a flip tub. It had been frozen, and has multiple leaks as a result. Hot Springs are the WORST tubs to do plumbing repairs on, due to the piece-built tongue and groove sides and extremely hard foam that channels water, making it a true joy to locate the...

www.troublefreepool.com

Here is a HS repair I did. Should help you get an idea of what you're up against.

 

[YoshiMoshi]

Ever wonder what biofilm looks like?

I picked up a 2002 Hot Springs Prodigy as a flip tub. It had been frozen, and has multiple leaks as a result. Hot Springs are the WORST tubs to do plumbing repairs on, due to the piece-built tongue and groove sides and extremely hard foam that channels water, making it a true joy to locate the...

www.troublefreepool.com

Here is a HS repair I did. Should help you get an idea of what you're up against.

Hey thanks. I appreciate the help. Do you know. How am I supposed to remove the paneling on the sides of the hot tub?

 

[RDspaguy]

How am I supposed to remove the paneling on the sides of the hot tub?

Not at all if possible. They are tongue-and-groove, individually stapled, and put together before the tub and foam is in it, so everything at the top is buried under the shell. Expect to break some. I use a nail bar and liberal amounts of foul language.

 

[YoshiMoshi]

Hey thanks. We opted to try fix a leak for hot tub and spas. Seems to work, except when unplugged. Pretty strange, been running the tub for awhile (jets off, but still plugged in and recirculating pump running) and no leaks. But yesterday when we completley unplug the tub from the wall, it started leaking again at the valves. Any ideas why this could be?

We are going to try another round of fix a leak, to see if it helps.

It would be problem solved, but worried if we loose power, it's going to start leaking again, or even worse we loose power when we are not home and can't do anything about the leak.

 

[RDspaguy]

ideas why this could be?

The leak is in the suction line.

We are going to try another round of fix a leak, to see if it helps.

It's a band-aid at best, and generally unreliable on any significant spa leak. It cannot work on a suction leak.

Ever wonder what biofilm looks like?

I picked up a 2002 Hot Springs Prodigy as a flip tub. It had been frozen, and has multiple leaks as a result. Hot Springs are the WORST tubs to do plumbing repairs on, due to the piece-built tongue and groove sides and extremely hard foam that channels water, making it a true joy to locate the...

www.troublefreepool.com

Here is a HS repair I did. Should help you get an idea of what you're up against.

In this I think there are some pics showing what is happening in the plumbing behind the drains, as I did repairs to it. Alot of 3/8" tubes (plumbing and pump drains) come together into a floor drain and circ system drain line. It's low, fragile, and often the cause of a leak.
Blocking it up sounds intimidating, but it's pretty easy if you know what to do.

 

[YoshiMoshi]

The leak is in the suction line.


It's a band-aid at best, and generally unreliable on any significant spa leak. It cannot work on a suction leak.

In this I think there are some pics showing what is happening in the plumbing behind the drains, as I did repairs to it. Alot of 3/8" tubes (plumbing and pump drains) come together into a floor drain and circ system drain line. It's low, fragile, and often the cause of a leak.
Blocking it up sounds intimidating, but it's pretty easy if you know what to do.

Hey thanks. We used the fix a leak and it worked after three 8 oz sessions! We were planning on using a pool pump to remove the water. If we used this to suck up the water would it ruin the seal or do we actually need to drain it with a hose (no suction). Not sure it matters.

 

[RDspaguy]

You misunderstand. The fix-a-leak seals small leaks by building up in the hole as it leaks and clogging it, kinda like pepper in a radiator. If the leak is on the suction side of the pump, running the pump will usually suck the product back out of the hole, or prevent it from clogging it in the first place. Nothing to do with draining it. Since portable spas are plumbed with flexible pipes, the pipes move, stretch, and vibrate when the pump is on, even in a full-foam tub like hot springs. This almost always defeats fix-a-leak in pretty short order. I know people who use it before every water change to keep it going. Some tubs are not worth fixing the right way, in which case if fix-a-leak gets you by, it's money well spent. Just don't expect miracles that last, as it will likely be leaking again in a few weeks or months, depending on the location. It works alot better on pools with rigid or buried pipes.

 

[YoshiMoshi]

@RDspaguy, thanks I really do appreciate your help!

We did end up draining our hot tub, and found ball bearings and some plastic pieces.

Looking online, this appears to be from a bearing in one of the jets that has gone bad. We didn't notice any whining sounds while the hot tub was running. We have a few different types of jets on our spa.


This type whose plastic piece rotates, inside a rubber bushing I guess, but the actual jet itself appears to be stationary.


This type I can grab ahold of and rotate by hand maybe 15 degrees or so in any direction before I reach a hard stop and can't rotate any more.


This type which doesn't appear to rotate, but I'm not able to get my hand in the hole to try and rotate the nozzle. But it doesn't look like this type rotates.


Then there's this type that looks like it's supposed to rotate, but I can't rotate it by hand, like at all. It's not just stiff, but not movable by hand. Which confused me, because if the bearing in it went bad, I would suspect I would be able to rotate it by hand, it would just be very rough and hard to do. But it does look like it's supposed to.

I have replaced bearings before in automobiles, but not jets in a hot tub. I'm not sure if it's possible to determine which jet is broken, and if it's possible to replace with some ease? I would imagine there's some nuts on the inside and a rubber ring to great the water tight seal, would require me to remove side panels of the hot tub, and probably not worth the hassle, if I can just use the hot tub as normal, and just have one jet that doesn't rotate?

 

[RDspaguy]

This type whose plastic piece rotates, inside a rubber bushing I guess, but the actual jet itself appears to be stationary.

That's the one. You're going to have a nozzle, might be single or double, might be a flat front or adjustable nozzle, somewhere, probably the filter well.

This type I can grab ahold of and rotate by hand maybe 15 degrees or so in any direction before I reach a hard stop and can't rotate any more.

There are 1 or 2 retaining clips on the inside wall of the jet barrel. Ypu can see one in the upper right in the pic. These must be simultaneously pried out about 1/8" with some tiny flathead screwdrivers or something similar as you pull the jet out, which is very easy to SAY, ...

Then there's this type that looks like it's supposed to rotate

That's a directional, aka "eyeball", and the nozzle does not rotate, but the whole jet face should turn counter-clockwise to turn on/off and likely has clips to remove or unscrews like the other.

it doesn't look like this type rotates.

No. You can remove the jet with an allen wrench, but it is also the flange in these so it's not something you want to do. No parts to fail.

 

[YoshiMoshi]

That's the one. You're going to have a nozzle, might be single or double, might be a flat front or adjustable nozzle, somewhere, probably the filter well.



There are 1 or 2 retaining clips on the inside wall of the jet barrel. Ypu can see one in the upper right in the pic. These must be simultaneously pried out about 1/8" with some tiny flathead screwdrivers or something similar as you pull the jet out, which is very easy to SAY, ...


That's a directional, aka "eyeball", and the nozzle does not rotate, but the whole jet face should turn counter-clockwise to turn on/off and likely has clips to remove or unscrews like the other.


No. You can remove the jet with an allen wrench, but it is also the flange in these so it's not something you want to do. No parts to fail.

Thanks! Anyway to identify or tips to determine which jet had the bearings fall out?

 

[RDspaguy]

The one that I said "that's the one" about, since it's only half a jet. The other half is around somewhere.
The shower head looking jet could have a spinner inside it, I really don't recall.

 

[RDspaguy]

Hot Spring Spas 71690 Hydromassage Rotary Jet, Grey

This part is a replacement hydromassage rotating jet for select Hot Spring hot tubs. Designed in cool grey for a sleek appearance.

www.hottubspasupplies.com

Probably not the cheapest you can find. Never used this supplier.

 

[YoshiMoshi]

Hey thanks. I took another look at this. It looks like you are absolutely right!

I removed that gray plastic part of the jet, and what do you know lots of bearings! Looks like I will need two of the bearings.

It looks like they are supposed to sit in this slot.

Some additional photos.

Would it be possible to just buy the bearing and press the new bearing on? If so, where can I buy just the bearing? It looks like that link is for the whole jet, but I'm wondering if it's possible to buy just the bearing and press the new one back on?

 

[RDspaguy]

Would it be possible to just buy the bearing

Not that I know of.