Leak or Check Valve Issue?

[amelia.smith]

We have an elevated spa connected to a pool. This past summer in Texas, we had to refill the water every couple of days to keep the pool level above the plaster and right below the overflow. The pool pump was off for a couple days and the lowest level the elevated spa drained to was right below the spa jets (1st pic). Also, when the pump was off, while the water level in the spa lowered, the water level in the pool maintained a more normal level and no need to refill the pool every couple of days like before (difficult to tell if there was a slight rise in the pool water level).

A couple questions:

1. We have a check valve buried in the ground (3rd pic) on the "spa return" side of the plumbing. Could this broken check valve cause this much water loss? Does it sound more like a leak?

2. We were advised to replace the old check valve with a Jandy. If anyone lives in the DFW area, what is a reasonable price to have somebody replace the old check valve with a Jandy? Thank you!

Pump Off - Lowest Level of Water in Elevated Spa


Pool & Spa


Old Check Valve

 

[Jimrahbe]

Amelia,

It is almost always the check valve... You are not losing any water, it is just draining through the check valve and back into your pool.

Could also be one of your valves, but 90% of the time, it is the check valve.

If you know anyone with a little experience cutting and gluing PVC pipe, ask them to help. Replacing the check valve is a pretty easy DIY project.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[amelia.smith]

Hi Jim,

This is all new to us so just trying to get a little better understanding of all the basics. Are the pool and elevated spa a closed system so we shouldn’t have to refill so often (about every 2 days)?

Where does all the water disappear to after backflowing to the pool?

Also, any good resources you would recommend to watch/read before this DIY check valve project?

Amelia,

It is almost always the check valve... You are not losing any water, it is just draining through the check valve and back into your pool.

Could also be one of your valves, but 90% of the time, it is the check valve.

If you know anyone with a little experience cutting and gluing PVC pipe, ask them to help. Replacing the check valve is a pretty easy DIY project.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Texas Splash]

Amelia, Jim's off-line at the moment. I'll try to give you some info until he returns.....

Are the pool and elevated spa a closed system so we shouldn’t have to refill so often

Yes, unless there is a break in the system. Then air can be introduced and cause water to move backwards and/or through other potential seepage spots. But in your case, as Jim was illuding to, since the spa is above the pool waterline, it makes sense that if the check valve is defective, water will naturally settle to the lower area - the pool. In that case you haven't lost any water in theory. It will get pumped back to the spa once the system is operating. Now if you suspect a true water level leak, and suspect your pool water level is dropping quicker than expected, there are some things you can try to see if there's a leak somewhere.

For the check valve, YouTube is your friend.
How To Replace Check Valve For Your Swimming Pool - YouTube
How to: Changing a Swimming Pool Check Valve - Chlorine King Pool Service - YouTube
Is your Water Draining from your Pump or Spa When Pool Shuts Off? Solved: Change the Check Valve - YouTube

 

[Jimrahbe]

a,

Well, it sounds like we may have two problems.. The simple problem is that when you have an elevated spa, and the spa water drains down to the bottom of the return jets and stops, that is a pretty sure sign that the water is flowing backwards, through the check valve, and back into the pool. This is obviously caused by the evil of gravity...

You may or may not have a leak, depending on what you have to refill every two days.. If you are just adding water to the Spa, it is just slowly draining back into the pool. You just don't notice because it is such a small volume of water compared to your pool. Keep in mind that you whole system will lose an 1/8th to 1/4 inch of water a day due to evaporation. Especially lately with all the wind..

The second problem sounds like it "might" be a leak.. If the water in your pool drops more than 1/2 inch a day, here in the DFW area, then I would start looking for a leak. Here is an article for you to read, but I would fix the known issue first and then work on any leak in the pool itself... Pool School - Leak Detection

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Amelia,
Just one note, if you were loosing what you’re viewing as a lot of water in the summer, the evaporation alone in the dead heat of summer is surprising to many. You could lose a hundred gallons of water a day to evaporation, and it feels like a leak.

 

[kadavis]

Could you show a picture or two of the valve setup at the pool equipment. You started another thread titled spa jet, that showed a 1-1/2" threaded check eyeball, now your showing a check valve going to the spa return. I'm wondering if the original check valve failed and they installed the check eyeball return instead

 

[amelia.smith]

Hi kadavis,

Thanks for helping me try to figure this out! Here are some pictures. What would be the logic to installing a check eyeball jet instead of replacing the original check valve on the return spa line (cost savings?) I was told the original owner tried changing this check eyeball jet a couple times already but guess it didn't help if we still have the problem with the spa draining to right below the jets.

If we replaced the check eyeball jet with a normal jet and replaced the check valve (buried in the ground) on the spa return line with a Jandy, could this solve our problem?

Also, could you explain to me how the spa receives water since the 3 way valves on the spa suction and return lines are both turned off to the spa?

Plumbing (old check valve on spa return line in the soil)


Return plumbing with pump on


Suction Plumbing with pump on


Check Eyeball Jet on right side in spa

Could you show a picture or two of the valve setup at the pool equipment. You started another thread titled spa jet, that showed a 1-1/2" threaded check eyeball, now your showing a check valve going to the spa return. I'm wondering if the original check valve failed and they installed the check eyeball return instead

 

[amelia.smith]

Jim, thanks for the info! I will keep that in mind about the 1/2 inch a day when we do the bucket test. Every couple of days, we are refilling the pool with a hose about 45 mins - does that sound like more than normal if we only have a malfunctioning check valve?

Would a pressure test help pinpoint exactly where we are having a problem in the spa? (check valve, 3 way diverter, jets)

a,

Well, it sounds like we may have two problems.. The simple problem is that when you have an elevated spa, and the spa water drains down to the bottom of the return jets and stops, that is a pretty sure sign that the water is flowing backwards, through the check valve, and back into the pool. This is obviously caused by the evil of gravity...

You may or may not have a leak, depending on what you have to refill every two days.. If you are just adding water to the Spa, it is just slowly draining back into the pool. You just don't notice because it is such a small volume of water compared to your pool. Keep in mind that you whole system will lose an 1/8th to 1/4 inch of water a day due to evaporation. Especially lately with all the wind..

The second problem sounds like it "might" be a leak.. If the water in your pool drops more than 1/2 inch a day, here in the DFW area, then I would start looking for a leak. Here is an article for you to read, but I would fix the known issue first and then work on any leak in the pool itself... Pool School - Leak Detection

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[kadavis]

Ok now I know where the check valve for Spa jets is located, and since the spa drains down to the jets this check valve should be replaced. The check eyeball is on the pool side and could also drain spa to that level and probably needs to be replaced. Either a Jandy or a Waterway 2.5"x 2" will work

 

[amelia.smith]

So you are suggesting to change the check valve buried in the soil to a Jandy AND change the check eyeball? Is there a reason we need both check valve and check eyeball?

So the pool return line feeds water through the check eyeball into the spa?

Ok now I know where the check valve for Spa jets is located, and since the spa drains down to the jets this check valve should be replaced. The check eyeball is on the pool side and could also drain spa to that level and probably needs to be replaced. Either a Jandy or a Waterway 2.5"x 2" will work

 

[kadavis]

You could replace the check eyeball first, since the level of this eyeball is around the same as the spa jets. This would be the least expensive fix if that's all it is. Yes the spa gets it's filtered water from the pool side plumbing. Maybe someone in your area can recommend a good company to do this work

 

[KDpoolguy]

If we replaced the check eyeball jet with a normal jet and replaced the check valve (buried in the ground) on the spa return line with a Jandy, could this solve our problem?

Also, could you explain to me how the spa receives water since the 3 way valves on the spa suction and return lines are both turned off to the spa?

You can add an ‘in-line’ check valve, and have it plumbed in quite easily at the pad. It’s just more expensive and more difficult to do, and maybe less unsightly as the spa-jet-return style. They both do the same thing, preventing backflow. Replace the one you have readily accessible, it should take you or a handyman a few moments.

With these Jandy 3-way valves you can either completely shut OFF the suction or have it shared. Each system is different. You can share suction, or have suction come from pool and outflow to spa and overflow back to pool, or vice Versa—oh wait not for your elevated spa
Generally I’d say for daily circulation it’s best to suction pool and return to spa for over flow. That way spa+pool gets circulation and avoids possible pump prime issues. Sharing suction pool+spa and returning to pool will lead to wonky pool levels. You may need to play with it and see how it’s plumbed. It seems to me that you should just move your outflow/return valve to share—not 50/50, but say 70/30 and continue to have no suction from spa. So 70 return to pool, 30% return to spa.
Your plumbing may have the spa suction and return OFF but there may be a return to the check-valve line may be independently feeding water to the spa, kinda looks like that’s possible with the 3 way coupling coming off the pool return Line after the valve. You must be getting your spa filling up and overflowing to the pool when pump is on...right?