Latest Del AOP 40 Sanitizer & Real World Experience?

[customfab]

I am seriously considering adding the Del AOP 40 "sanitizer" as part of my pool remodel. Along with a salt water generator system. This is Del's latest technology which seems to have made strides in actually offer sanitizing value and lower required chlorine levels (claim 0.5ppm - 1ppm levels). It is also NSF 50 certified (Level 2 Supplemental Sanitizer for 3-log kill).

DEL AOP 25 & 40 - CMP

DEL AOP 25 DEL AOP 40 VOLTAGE 110/240 VAC, 50/60 Hz, 0.7 Amps 110/240 VAC, 50/60 Hz, 1.1 Amps OZONE CELLS One APG2 Corona Discharge Cell, Ozone Output: 215mg/hr Two APG2 Corona Discharge Cells, Ozone Output: 500mg/hr PLUMBING Inlet and Outlet 2” PVC Unions Inlet and Outlet 2” PVC Unions OPTIMAL...

www.c-m-p.com

Now I understand the TFP philosophy is that these "sanitizers" are fools gold and a waste of money. They do very little for contributing to overall lower chlorine levels. They only offer sanitizing benefits to the water being held in the unit while doing little to benefit the entire pool volume of water.

But as a technologist, our world changes fast and innovation is continuous. I have listened to a few different videos, especially Pool University, that make claims that these are indeed helpful products that can be effective as lowering the overall required chlorine in the water.

But again, in today's world driven by marketeers, I remain cautious. On the flip side, lots of "experts" on various boards that have ZERO real world knowledge with specific products (gang mentality). So it works both ways.

Anyone out there with real-life experience using the latest Del APO 25 or 40 series? Are attitudes slowly changing to adopt this type of technology as helpful?

Much appreciate insights...especially from those who have actually used this system.

 

[customfab]

For those curious, I wanted to provide some alternative sources:

CMP Del Manufacturer: Myth Busters - Yes, directly from the manufacturer!

Pool Pro - I personally thing these guys are 100% legit & offer supportive science. What they say, makes sense to me but is commonly rejected on TFP from what I have seen in threads.

Blue Haven Pools

What is Advanced Oxidation Process (AOP) for Swimming Pool Sanitization?

What is Advanced Oxidation Process (AOP) for Swimming Pool Sanitization? Learn how AOP systems safely and effectively disinfect water without the typical chlorine aggravation and deliver other benefits for a healthier, more comfortable swimming environment.

www.google.com

Pool Chemistry Training Institute:

AOP and OH Explained • Pool Chemistry Training Institute

AOP is an abbreviation for Advanced Oxidation Processes. In general, AOP is a group of chemical treatments and procedures designed to remove organic (and

poolchemistrytraininginstitute.com

Swimming Pool Steve:

Chloramine Consultants:

Comparing The Best Secondary Sanitization and Oxidation Systems for Swimming Pools

What is the best secondary sanitization/oxidation system for your swimming pool? This article compares the four main types: UV, Ozone, AOP and HDO.

blog.chloramineconsulting.com

Hope this helps. Just a few I have read and I try my best to understand the source of the "truth". Many more very recent articles out there.

 

[Newdude]

Hope this helps. Just a few I have read and I try my best to understand the source of the "truth"

The truth is that if you have a primary system that is 100% effective, there is zero need for a secondary system. The SWG is already the lazy man's DREAM, you cannot get any better than it already is.

Keep in mind that the industry does not recognize the CYA/FC relationship, always reccomending the FC of 1-3 ppm regardless if that is sufficient to be sanitary.

They also don't recognize the location/climate always reccomending the FC of 1-3 ppm regardless if that is sufficient to be sanitary.

They also don't recognize the point of time In the season, always reccomending the FC of 1-3 ppm regardless if that is sufficient to be sanitary.

Using the industry reccomendations, you likely aren't sanitary, and therfore may see some benefit from the secondary sanitizing device. But we at TFP prefer a primary method that's 100% effective on its own. Have a read : Pool Care Basics

They only offer sanitizing benefits to the water being held in the unit while doing little to benefit the entire pool volume of water.

Exactly. The SWG creates residual sanitizer in the pool water as does manually dosing with bleach / Liquid Chlorine. The secondary units leave 99.999% of the water untouched at any given moment, requiring a full dose of chlorine, regardless of whatever bold faced lies the manufacters claim.

If you use both, the secondary unit will consume some of the chlorine that you paid good money for, with zero benefit.

 

[Newdude]

Had a minute to go over the videos and links posted and found this gem:

So how do you know if it is working?​

Well, you don’t.

And also, their own list of 'cons' is quite extensive for a product that isn't needed in the first place.

• Hydroxyl radicals (•OH) last for 10 microseconds or less
• Provides no residual in the water
• No way to verify it is working at optimum level
• All oxidation and killing is done in AOP device – no control of biofilm or algae
• Provides a fixed amount of ozone, UV, hydrogen peroxide and •OH – may not be adequate when bather loads are high
• May not provide protection against future introduction of pathogens or person to person contact
• Sometimes sold as chlorine free but not approved for that use
• No test for •OH or AOP
• No AOP or •OH dose guidelines or approvals
• Efficiency affected by high humidity, temperature, high pH, high alkalinity, iron, copper and manganese
• UV protective quartz sleeve needs cleaning frequently
• Replacement or consumable parts availability and cost
• Expensive

I have a SWG and needed to adjust it twice the entire season, both of them in the fall. I tested at weekly or bi-weekly intervals and that was the extent of my sanitiation needs. I have spent 15 to 30 minutes on sanitation or testing the entire season, with the pool still open in November. To spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on systems that can't do better than what I already have is just foolish.

 

[pjt]

lower required chlorine levels (claim 0.5ppm - 1ppm levels)

They do very little for contributing to overall lower chlorine levels.

Why are you seeking lower chlorine levels? Chlorine is an excellent sanitizer and you need an adequate amount to keep your water clean and sanitary. Low chlorine levels lead to big problems.

 

[Mdragger88]

Save your $ & upgrade the equipment that really matters with it -
the swg (rated for at least 2x’s your pool’s volume or larger) ,
the pump (vsp),
& the filter (the biggest one you can fit in your space).
The advertisement for those units is that you can run a lower fc residual (which is playing with fire & not recommended) not that the pool will consume less fc since it’s quite the opposite- uv & ozone actually comsume fc as @Newdude mentioned. If you had an indoor pool there may be some slight benefit but for an outdoor pool in sunny texas it’s really just burning dollars .

Fill out your signature for more detailed advice based on what you’re already using, pool volume, features etc.

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.google.com

 

[customfab]

Guys, very much appreciate those remarks and specific details, especially from Newdude and looking further into those references. I certainly do NOT claim to be a pool expert. And reading those Pool Basics is exactly where I am at.

I am about 50% into a pool remodel. New flagstone patio just got installed after a lot of foundation expansion work. And the entire pool has been gutted and 100% of the original plaster removed in prep of a new quartz finish. I'm ready to order all my new pool equipment. I did purchase a Pentair Intelliflo VS pump 2 years ago but outside of that I'm planning on replacing the entire system (built in 1997).

As I'm saving $10Ks by GC-ing the remodel, I am able to invest in the best quality products from the latest polymeric grout for our sandstone pavers to 100% solid epoxy grout for our glass tile and the latest submersible mortars. I do look for the best value for the dollar but I am willing to try the "latest & greatest" (just not blindly). Seems that AOG is good in theory but in real-world application offers few benefits that translate to a good dollar investment.

So with your help, easy decision at this point to stay away from secondary sanitizing systems until they are clearly proven effective within the entire system.

Now I just need to decide on my specific SWG system and Heater and just how "automated" I want to make the system. And yes, I am absolutely sizing for at least 2x my pool volume.

​

 

[Newdude]

And yes, I am absolutely sizing for at least 2x my pool volume

I would have gone 3X in a heartbeat if I could have. Check these maths. To go from 20k to 40k is double the lifespan for 20% more cost. To go from 40k to 60k is 50% more lifespan (compounded) for another 20% in cost. So 20k to 60k is triple the lifespan for about 42% (compounded) cost.

The primary expense is 'getting in the game'. Once you're there, you're buying future FC at a steep discount and future you will be paid back several times over.

In TX, you have both a longer season and more UV burning up your chlorine. You will be going through far more of it than those of us up north over the units lifespan. You really can't go 'too big'.

easy decision at this point to stay away from secondary sanitizing systems until they are clearly proven effective within the entire system

You're still missing that they are secondary systems when the primary system doesn't need any help. They can't ever become primary as neither is physically capable of providing residual sanitation. Think about all my already sterile water going through one of those systems. What's the point of them in the first place ? They can't make it sterlie-r. They can only lighten my wallet.