Jandy ePump only runs at full speed

[flyboy320]

Link to pump https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0311700.pdf

Link to Aqualink panel https://www.pioneerfamilypools.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/aqualink_pda.pdf

When I power on the vs pump, it goes to what sounds like full speed (I don't have the plumbing hooked up, just the motor without the wet end attached just for testing purposes so I don't burn up the seal since there is no water flowing through the wet end). I have set the pump so it primes at 600rpm and the default speed for 600rpm, but it just stays at full speed. I have tried the RS485 communication wire with and without the red wire connected since the pump manual says to use all 4 wires, and the Aqualink manual says to only use the black, yellow & green. The voltage between L1 & L2 is 240VAC. The red RS485 wire voltage is 10v.

I have only 3 high voltage wires connected to the pump, 2 hot and one ground. Is this correct for a VS pump, just these 3 wires? The wires are coming from a relay so the pump doesn't get power all the time, just when the timer for the pump comes on and then the green LED on the pump lights up, and a few seconds later the pump comes on at full speed. I am using the wiring from a Jandy single speed Stealth pump so I'm assuming it works with the variable speed?

I bought the ePump used off kijiji so it is possible the speed pump drive electronics are faulty and that's why I can't control the speed, but also maybe I'm wiring it incorrectly. I have gone through the Aqualink PDA menu several times and tried all different settings, but the pump just starts up at full speed and stays there.

What would be the best way to troubleshoot the issue, anyone familiar with the Aqualink RS & the Jandy ePumps? Perhaps my Aqualink doesn't have the required revision, although the handheld does have the ability to program the variable speed pumps.

 

[HermanTX]

Are the dip switches set properly. On page 12 of the manual Switch 1 & 2 should be OFF (for Aqualink PDA) and switch 3 & 4 should be OFF (for pump #1)
The RS485 cable should have all 4 wires connected on both sides.
Once all of that is verified then you need to program the pump using the PDA. The PDA is clunky so you have to work through the pump set up screens.

Also, I would wire the pump to the LINE side of the relay Rather than the LOAD side of the relay. The RS485 cable is what communicates to the pump so you do not need the relay to turn or or off the pump. The schedule will tell the pump to turn on or off or which speed.

 

[1poolman1]

Link to pump https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0311700.pdf

Link to Aqualink panel https://www.pioneerfamilypools.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/aqualink_pda.pdf

When I power on the vs pump, it goes to what sounds like full speed (I don't have the plumbing hooked up, just the motor without the wet end attached just for testing purposes so I don't burn up the seal since there is no water flowing through the wet end). I have set the pump so it primes at 600rpm and the default speed for 600rpm, but it just stays at full speed. I have tried the RS485 communication wire with and without the red wire connected since the pump manual says to use all 4 wires, and the Aqualink manual says to only use the black, yellow & green. The voltage between L1 & L2 is 240VAC. The red RS485 wire voltage is 10v.

I have only 3 high voltage wires connected to the pump, 2 hot and one ground. Is this correct for a VS pump, just these 3 wires? The wires are coming from a relay so the pump doesn't get power all the time, just when the timer for the pump comes on and then the green LED on the pump lights up, and a few seconds later the pump comes on at full speed. I am using the wiring from a Jandy single speed Stealth pump so I'm assuming it works with the variable speed?

I bought the ePump used off kijiji so it is possible the speed pump drive electronics are faulty and that's why I can't control the speed, but also maybe I'm wiring it incorrectly. I have gone through the Aqualink PDA menu several times and tried all different settings, but the pump just starts up at full speed and stays there.

What would be the best way to troubleshoot the issue, anyone familiar with the Aqualink RS & the Jandy ePumps? Perhaps my Aqualink doesn't have the required revision, although the handheld does have the ability to program the variable speed pumps.

Pump won't prime at 600RPM. If the communication cable has not been connected at both the pump and Jandy, you can set all the speeds you like, but the pump will only operate at its default settings. Pump requires constant power, not switched at a relay. Doesn't take long to burn a seal in a completely dry pump, especially if at the higher speeds.

 

[flyboy320]

Are the dip switches set properly. On page 12 of the manual Switch 1 & 2 should be OFF (for Aqualink PDA) and switch 3 & 4 should be OFF (for pump #1)
The RS485 cable should have all 4 wires connected on both sides.
Once all of that is verified then you need to program the pump using the PDA. The PDA is clunky so you have to work through the pump set up screens.

Also, I would wire the pump to the LINE side of the relay Rather than the LOAD side of the relay. The RS485 cable is what communicates to the pump so you do not need the relay to turn or or off the pump. The schedule will tell the pump to turn on or off or which speed.

I have tried all sorts of different combinations of the dip switches, including the settings they should be at, no difference. The handheld will show the pump online when it's running, and also show it's priming when it first turns on and if the switches are incorrect it shows it off line, so there is some communication happening between the pump and Aqualink.

When I test further I will make sure all 4 wires of the RS-485 are connected. I have the RS-485 on the same red 4-pin connector as the J-box transceiver since there is one 1 red 4-pin connector on the power center.

The schedule cannot turn off this pump. If you have no schedule (no on/off times set) it defaults to the "pool" speed and the lowest is 600rpm. That's why I am testing with the pump wired to the relay since my current 1 speed pump is still hooked up to the pool and I'm just unplugging the power cored from it and plugging in the power cord for the VS pump when testing. At least that's the way I'm reading it on page 19 section 5.3.2 of the manual I posted above.

A variable speed pump can be programmed to run at any one of its eight (8) speeds. If the variable speed pump is used
for pool filtration, then it will be powered from the FILTER PUMP relay. Therefore to program the variable speed
pump you must first set a program time for the FILTER PUMP, then you need to program the pump speeds to turn
on/off during the FILTER PUMP cycle. If you do not program any speeds to run during the filtration cycle, then by
default the variable speed pump will run at the POOL speed setting during its filtration cycle.

Pump won't prime at 600RPM. If the communication cable has not been connected at both the pump and Jandy, you can set all the speeds you like, but the pump will only operate at its default settings. Pump requires constant power, not switched at a relay. Doesn't take long to burn a seal in a completely dry pump, especially if at the higher speeds.

I did forget to mention I'm testing this pump without the wet end attached, it's just the motor itself that's running so I don't burn out the seal since it's not connected to the pool's plumbing. As for the switched power, since I'm just testing the pump at the moment and it's not connected to the pool's plumbing, should it still work on the switched power? I assume so since when I use the handheld to turn on the pump, the relay clicks and it provides power to the pump and it turns on, but runs at full speed. I have changed the priming speed with the handheld to prime at 600 just so I can tell if it's running at full speed, or the requested priming speed of 600.

 

[HermanTX]

I am really confused on all your testing, with and without the fluid side.
I had a PDA that controlled a VS Pump so I know the programming works. I had a Pentair but it works the same with Jandy.
This assumes the pump you purchased has a functioning electronic system. The ePump can only be controlled by an external controller as there is no onboard keypad to program the pump directly. See section 3.2.4 on the pump manual you shared.

It is important to set the dipswitches properly so the pump can be found by the software. I think you found that out.
The 4 wire RS485 will help program and control the pump. Your manual for the PDA is what I used as well.
The pump should be electrically connected to the LINE side of the relay to have constant power.
The prime speed should be preferably above 2500rpm and only needs to run for 2 mins

The AquaLink software allows for 8 programmed speeds for the VS pump.
The first speed, called Pool, should always be the total time you want the filter pump to be ON. So if your want your pump to run for 12 hrs per day, then set it for 8am start and 8pm end. Set the speed to be the minimum speed that gives you circulation and/or allows your SWCG to operate. My suggestion is to set that at 1500 rpm now and then you can adjust later.
Any other speed you want the pump to run at during day should be set as one of the remaining 7 speeds. So let’s say you want a higher skim speed for 3 hrs during the day. So select a speed label and program it for 2200rpm from 11am to 2pm.
What will happen is the pump will kick on at 8am, do a short prime and then slow to 1500rpm. Then at 11am it will ramp up to 2200rpm and at 2pm it will ramp down to 1500rpm and at 8pm the pump will shut off.

Do you have any other water features, spa? Maybe show us a picture of your total equipment pad and pool. Thanks.

 

[flyboy320]

First, thanks for everyone's help, it's much appreciated. I'll try and clarify some things.

I am really confused on all your testing, with and without the fluid side.
The pump is sitting on the equipment pad without anything plumbed into it, just electrical hooked up. I have the wet side physically removed so it's just the motor turning on, no impeller, seal, etc. attached. This is because I'm just testing the pump and I still have the single speed pump running the pool. When I'm testing the VS pump I unplug the single speed pump from the 240v outlet and plug in the VS pump to it and also connect the RS-485 line (while the panel is powered off).

It is important to set the dipswitches properly so the pump can be found by the software. I think you found that out.
I currently have them all OFF and using "pump 1".

The pump should be electrically connected to the LINE side of the relay to have constant power.
To save me from re-wiring the panel I have just used the same wiring as the single speed pump which is connected to the "FILTER PUMP" relay (which is what it says to do in the Aqualink manual on page 19). Electrically this should still work with a VS pump? I see what your saying that once it's all hooked up permanently it should by connected to the LINE side so it gets power all the time, but wiring it through a relay it should still be able to run at different speeds and not just at full?

Do you have any other water features, spa?
Only other feature is a waterfall.

 

[1poolman1]

First, thanks for everyone's help, it's much appreciated. I'll try and clarify some things.

I am really confused on all your testing, with and without the fluid side.
The pump is sitting on the equipment pad without anything plumbed into it, just electrical hooked up. I have the wet side physically removed so it's just the motor turning on, no impeller, seal, etc. attached. This is because I'm just testing the pump and I still have the single speed pump running the pool. When I'm testing the VS pump I unplug the single speed pump from the 240v outlet and plug in the VS pump to it and also connect the RS-485 line (while the panel is powered off).

It is important to set the dipswitches properly so the pump can be found by the software. I think you found that out.
I currently have them all OFF and using "pump 1".

The pump should be electrically connected to the LINE side of the relay to have constant power.
To save me from re-wiring the panel I have just used the same wiring as the single speed pump which is connected to the "FILTER PUMP" relay (which is what it says to do in the Aqualink manual on page 19). Electrically this should still work with a VS pump? I see what your saying that once it's all hooked up permanently it should by connected to the LINE side so it gets power all the time, but wiring it through a relay it should still be able to run at different speeds and not just at full?

Do you have any other water features, spa?
Only other feature is a waterfall.

There are only a couple of VSP motors/drives that can handle the power being switched on and off. A Jandy isn't one of them.

 

[HermanTX]

To save me from re-wiring the panel I have just used the same wiring as the single speed pump which is connected to the "FILTER PUMP" relay

Currently your single speed pump is not connected to the designated Filter Pump Relay. The FP Relay is called out on the schematic as being the top left relay. Currently your 120v light is connected to that relay.
The bottom left relay (called Aux 1 on the schematic) is wired for your pump right now. You can see the 240V wires from the 15amp circuit breaker to the bottom left relay. And the wires on the LOAD side are going down to the receptacle where the pump is plugged into.

What is important to determine now is which of the relays is plugged into the Filter Pump socket. I circled it in BLUE. Can you follow the Red & Black wires down and confirm which relay it connects to - either the top left or the bottom left. Then confirm what socket the other relay is connected to.

You can switch relays around but need to understand which socket controls it as that influences the programming of the device.

I do not understand why the system was wired this way. It would have been easy enough just to run the pump electrical wires to the relay rather than terminating them in a receptacle then power the receptacle by wiring it to the relay.

We can help you wire it correctly if you wish once you plan to fully plumb in the new Jandy ePump.

As stated above, it is not good to keep switching power on And off to a VS pump.

 

[flyboy320]

Currently your single speed pump is not connected to the designated Filter Pump Relay. The FP Relay is called out on the schematic as being the top left relay. Currently your 120v light is connected to that relay.
The bottom left relay (called Aux 1 on the schematic) is wired for your pump right now. You can see the 240V wires from the 15amp circuit breaker to the bottom left relay. And the wires on the LOAD side are going down to the receptacle where the pump is plugged into.

What is important to determine now is which of the relays is plugged into the Filter Pump socket. I circled it in BLUE. Can you follow the Red & Black wires down and confirm which relay it connects to - either the top left or the bottom left. Then confirm what socket the other relay is connected to.

You can switch relays around but need to understand which socket controls it as that influences the programming of the device.

I do not understand why the system was wired this way. It would have been easy enough just to run the pump electrical wires to the relay rather than terminating them in a receptacle then power the receptacle by wiring it to the relay.

We can help you wire it correctly if you wish once you plan to fully plumb in the new Jandy ePump.

As stated above, it is not good to keep switching power on And off to a VS pump.
View attachment 513906

After I took that picture I was wondering the same thing so I went out and looked, and the bottom left relay is wired to the filter pump socket, so the correct socket is controlling the relay.

Right now even if I use the LINE side for power, since the pump is not adjusting speeds as commanded by the control panel, as soon as I plug the 240v power cord into the socket, the pump starts up at full speed, so I'm finding it easier to use the relay to switch power on/off to the pump until I figure out what's wrong. I get what your saying about avoiding powering on & off the pump with the high voltage plug since it's not good for the controller.

If the variable speed pump drive attached to the pump is bad, would the pump even turn on?

Would the fact there is no load on the motor (since it’s not plumbed in) make a difference, should it still be able to run at slow speed with no load on it?

 

[ajw22]

Let's try some specific diagnostics.

Show us pics of the RS-485 connection at both the pump and Aqualink.

If you disconnect the RS-485 line and power the pump on does it run?

Test the drive with the RS-485 jumper method. Using small sections of 22 AWG wire, jump pins 1 to 3 and 2 to 4. These wires can be made by cutting off a section of the RS-485 wires. Re-install the connector and attach the access cover. Apply power to the motor. The motor should spin at 2600 RPM indefinitely. If the motor works, there is a problem with the RS-485 line or with the controller.

Show us where in the clunky PDA interface you have set a VS speed for the pump.

Has @PoolGate looked at this?

 

[flyboy320]

Let's try some specific diagnostics.

Show us pics of the RS-485 connection at both the pump and Aqualink.

If you disconnect the RS-485 line and power the pump on does it run?

Test the drive with the RS-485 jumper method. Using small sections of 22 AWG wire, jump pins 1 to 3 and 2 to 4. These wires can be made by cutting off a section of the RS-485 wires. Re-install the connector and attach the access cover. Apply power to the motor. The motor should spin at 2600 RPM indefinitely. If the motor works, there is a problem with the RS-485 line or with the controller.

Show us where in the clunky PDA interface you have set a VS speed for the pump.

Has @PoolGate looked at this?

I have checked the continuity of the RS485 from pump to the controller board. Only difference in my wires is that I don't have the yellow, it's a white instead.

If the RS485 is disconnected, the green light on the pump drive still lights up, but it does not spin. Under status on the handheld, it says ePump OFFLINE (it does not say this when the RS485 is connected, it says ePump 1750rpm, 135 Watts).

The jumper method is not listed in my manual, although I have seen it in other Jandy VS pump manuals, so I'm not sure if it's applicable to my model pump. However, I did try this and the pump did not spin, it acted as it did when no comm wire was attached. Again, because it's not in my specific pump manual I'm not sure this tells us much.

In the PDA interface I have the speed set under, MENU--SYSTEM SETUP--VAR SPEED PUMP--SPEED/LABELS----PUMP1--SET SPEEDS, and have POOL set to 1750. Just as in page 34, section 6.15.5 of the above manual.

 

[flyboy320]

I'm sure I'm programming the PDA correctly and since the motor does start up, I'm thinking it must be the electronics in the motor speed drive that has gone bad. There are some used ones available and I might buy one and give that a try. I have read sometimes these can go bad with power surges, so maybe that's what happened with this one. Only thing that's giving me pause is the Aqualink will show the pump is online when it runs at full speed, although it shows 600RPM (that's what I have it set to in the PDA), but it's clearly running much faster than that, and it will show the pump offline when I have the dip switched in the incorrect setting for pump1, so the electronic drive unit is communicating somewhat to the Aqualink, but for some reason cannot control the motors speed.

 

[HermanTX]

Only thing that's giving me pause is the Aqualink will show the pump is online when it runs at full speed, although it shows 600RPM (that's what I have it set to in the PDA), but it's clearly running much faster than that,

Just 1 last item. In post #11 it is stated that the POOL is set for 1750rpm however in the above you have it set to 600rpm. If there is a overlap in schedules, the system will always use the higher speed unless there is manual override. Just ensure your schedule for POOL is the only schedule and delete all others.

 

[ajw22]

See if you can borrow a control head for the pump from someplace. Plugging in the pump control panel will tell you if the speed controls work and it is a PDA problem which I think it is.

I can’t see how speed control done by firmware will break if it can run the motor at a given speed.

 

[flyboy320]

Just 1 last item. In post #11 it is stated that the POOL is set for 1750rpm however in the above you have it set to 600rpm. If there is a overlap in schedules, the system will always use the higher speed unless there is manual override. Just ensure your schedule for POOL is the only schedule and delete all others.

I have messed around with the speed settings several times, sometimes have it set to 600, and sometimes higher like 1750, it was just to change it from 3450 so I could tell it slowed down after it ran the priming sequence. No matter what the speed settings i set, it always ran at full.

See if you can borrow a control head for the pump from someplace. Plugging in the pump control panel will tell you if the speed controls work and it is a PDA problem which I think it is.

I can’t see how speed control done by firmware will break if it can run the motor at a given speed.

When you say a control head, or pump control panel, are you referring to the JEP-R control?

JEP-R Controller | Jandy

The JEP-R controller has two timed speeds/8 speeds total and can be rotated 180° on the pump or removed for remote mounting.

www.jandy.com

So I could plug this into the pump and see if it can control the speed and if it can, that rules out an issue with the pump's own motor speed drive and as such much be a problem with the PDA?

 

[ajw22]

Yup, the JEP-R plugs into the same RS-485 comm in the pump and gives it the same commands as the Aqualink does. If the pump works with one it should work with the other.

 

[flyboy320]

Just went out and decided to measure the actual RPM the pump is doing and turns out it's 4200. Seems awfully high and the default max setting in the PDA is 3450. So not sure where to go from here and what this points to as the likley culprit, the motor speed controller or the Aqualink. Unfortunatly I can't find anyone with a spare JEP-R controller to try.

 

[mknauss]

The motor max rpm is 3450 rpm.

 

[flyboy320]

The motor max rpm is 3450 rpm.

Which is why I'm thinking it may be the motor controller that's the issue. None of the 3 phases in the motor are shorted to ground or each other.

 

[flyboy320]

So my local pool company was good enough to lend me a JEP-R controller to test on the motor. Same behaviour as when the Aqualink was used to try and control the speed, ramps up to full speed and stays there. After priming, JEP-R says speed is 1750, but you can tell the actual speed never ramped down from the priming speed to a lower speed.

So this narrows it down to either the electronics in the motor speed controller mounted on the motor, or the electric motor itself may have an internal issue. Seems like where ever the speed sensor is, that's what has the issue. Does anyone know how these motors determine their actual RPM's? If the rpm sensor is in the electronics part of the speed controller then I can find used ones online and swap it out, the motor is harder to find.