Is high chlorine (15+ PPM) a health concern? I have high CYA (160ish) + Drought in California

[boardergeek]

Hey all,

We bought a new home last year with a pool and the CYA is testing really high. Pool Store said it was about 200+ and a dilution test seems to put it at 160ish. I've switched to liquid chlorine and ditched the pool store. But we are on a well (which is all sorts of issues on its own with high iron), and we are in the middle of several years of low rain in California. I don't feel that I can drain the pool intentionally and refill with well water. Even purchase water from a truck feels wrong (plus I was quoted $3500 for 13,000 gallons of water).

My pool is about 25K gallons (I think). Is there anything I need to consider about keeping the chlorine at 13-15+ ppm to deal with the high levels of CYA?

I figure I will just add 64oz of chlorine every couple of days and suffer through the expense of using a lot of chlorine this season and address the drain/refill when drought conditions improve.

Thoughts, musings, mocking comments to read the forums more thoroughly are all appreciated.

To be fair to myself, the threads that are close to the issue suggest high chlorine for a season is "okayish" as long as nobody decides to drink the water. I'm just making sure I'm not missing something.

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

The OTO pH test is invalid when pH is over 10. Get a good pH meter and calibrating solutions.

Dont lose control of your water chemistry and get algae. The SLAM Process will be difficult at those CYA and FC levels.

 

[Newdude]

Hey BG !!!

Is there anything I need to consider about keeping the chlorine at 13-15+ ppm to deal with the high levels of CYA?

Yes. Your minimum will be about 12. Your target will be high teens and more chlorine burns off at higer levels. Its barely noticeable at 1 -2 above a target level with a in range CYA, but you may be adding 5 -6 FC a day, or even more, just to break even. With the current bleach prices being as high as they are, it will get old quick. But $3500 is also a tough pill to swallow as is the moral barrier of wasting that much water. So i get it. But as said above, you'll need to be vigilant because if you lose the battle after a chunk of time, it was all for nothing.

I figure I will just add 64oz of chlorine every couple of days

64 oz is about 2ppm for 25k gallons. You would need that daily in the easy parts of the season with lower UV. Once it gets hot by you, it will need a gallon + a day.

It can be done, but commit to maintaining it if you go that route.

Also search for Reverse Osmosis. They bring a big truck in for about $800 and filter the water to remove the CYA, calcium and salt. It will be close to, and maybe even cheaper than buying the bleach you'll need this season.

 

[an1vrsy]

+1 for reverse osmosis. At least, see if you can get an estimate from reputable services in your area. You will still need one of the recommended test kits, TF-100 from tftestkits.net or the Taylor K-2006C from multiple on-line stores. Oh, btw, I have an Apera PH60 digital pH meter and the calibrating solutions.

 

[kul]

Reverse Osmosis. They bring a big truck in for about $800 and filter the water to remove the CYA, calcium and salt

Likely will cost less where you are. The challenge is going to be finding someone who does it there. You’ll replace about 10-15% of your water. When I did it it was roughly 10% replacement.

 

[boardergeek]

Hi all,

After the feedback on my high CYA level, I'm looking to see if anyone knows of any service in the Sacramento / Bay Area that does Reverse Osmosis.

I can't find anything on Google. The only hit I found was an old article suggesting that Sacramento pool service Sacramento Vacaville, pool cleaning Roseville did the service. I called them and they sold the equipment to an unknown San Jose entity.

 

[boardergeek]

Hey BG !!!

Yes. Your minimum will be about 12. Your target will be high teens and more chlorine burns off at higer levels. Its barely noticeable at 1 -2 above a target level with a in range CYA, but you may be adding 5 -6 FC a day, or even more, just to break even. With the current bleach prices being as high as they are, it will get old quick. But $3500 is also a tough pill to swallow as is the moral barrier of wasting that much water. So i get it. But as said above, you'll need to be vigilant because if you lose the battle after a chunk of time, it was all for nothing.

64 oz is about 2ppm for 25k gallons. You would need that daily in the easy parts of the season with lower UV. Once it gets hot by you, it will need a gallon + a day.

It can be done, but commit to maintaining it if you go that route.

Also search for Reverse Osmosis. They bring a big truck in for about $800 and filter the water to remove the CYA, calcium and salt. It will be close to, and maybe even cheaper than buying the bleach you'll need this season.

Thanks for the information... I really appreciate it. I did find the ONE guy that does RO in my area. He won't service the pool because of the well. He said it isn't worth it to him because of the risk that my pool has high silicia and high iron which will destroy his membrane.

I guess I'm going high chlorine this season. Now I just need to figure out the best daily test. I have the TF-100 kit but the every day chlorine test is meaningless to me.

 

[an1vrsy]

Can you get water test for silica? I know there are test for iron. If you can determine those levels accurately, you might be able to have the RO contractor reconsider.

Also, if you are going to dose greater than 10 ppm chlorine, you will need a digital pH meter. I have the Apera PH60. It works very well. Yes, I also purchased the calibration liquids.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

It’s not a service that’s easily found. The equipment requires substantial upkeep and the cost for the service is almost always MORE expensive than draining and refilling. There’s that and it’s only about 80% efficient so you still need to add about 20% make up water after they are done plus rebalancing chemicals.

Is there a reason you can’t simply drain and refill?

 

[Newdude]

but the every day chlorine test is meaningless to me.

Its pretty meaningless by Taylors own say so. Its basically a guess strip. It was something like +/- .5 at 1, +/- 1 at 2 and 3+ was unreliable. Its great for 'is there chlorine in there ? Its really yellow ? Cool.' But truth be told, you already knew you were well above minimum so it still didn't tell you much. And actually it does the same thing from 10-20 but in orange (?) Liight to dark. 20-30 was the same with brown. Its certainly not perfect, or exact, but if it says you are dark whatever color, you are 5-10 in that range.

I guess I'm going high chlorine

Then commit and fight. Good luck and keep us posted.

Also, keep an eye on the CYA because as it slowly drifts down, so can your FC accordingly. Expect 3 - 5 a month to degredation and a little more to splashout and rain. It may even drop 10% -15% a month when it gets really hot.

 

[boardergeek]

It’s not a service that’s easily found. The equipment requires substantial upkeep and the cost for the service is almost always MORE expensive than draining and refilling. There’s that and it’s only about 80% efficient so you still need to add about 20% make up water after they are done plus rebalancing chemicals.

Is there a reason you can’t simply drain and refill?

Mostly drought making me feel bad +

Can you get water test for silica? I know there are test for iron. If you can determine those levels accurately, you might be able to have the RO contractor reconsider.

Also, if you are going to dose greater than 10 ppm chlorine, you will need a digital pH meter. I have the Apera PH60. It works very well. Yes, I also purchased the calibration liquids.

I asked that exact question and the vendor just didn’t want to budge.

 

[kul]

I get it. It’s tough, especially in the Central Valley where I am also from originally. Sorry RO doesn’t seem like it’s going to work out.
@JoyfulNoise the replacement of water via RO is actually 10-15%. Mine was closer to 10%. It’s definitely not cheap but the water saving can be substantial compared to draining and filling. I guess it just depends on the reasons chosen for RO.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I get it. It’s tough, especially in the Central Valley where I am also from originally. Sorry RO doesn’t seem like it’s going to work out.
@JoyfulNoise the replacement of water via RO is actually 10-15%. Mine was closer to 10%. It’s definitely not cheap but the water saving can be substantial compared to draining and filling. I guess it just depends on the reasons chosen for RO.

It depends on the rig used and the pressure differential on the membrane. A lot of equipment out in the field uses very undersized permeate pumps to reduce noise and power consumption and membranes that are either worn out or not properly spec’d to handle the TDS levels found in pools. Around here there’s only about two vendors that do it consistently and they never get better than 80%. My neighbor recently had it done and she had to add back about 25% of her total pool volume. Even after 2 full days of filtering, the guys rig only got her CH levels down to about 300ppm before he called it quits. If you got 90% then you can count yourself lucky for having a good vendor in your area. She also spent about 3 times more on the service than what it would have cost her in straight water replacement.

I really don’t understand the concept of “feeling bad” about dumping water. It’s pool water, it heavily laden with dissolved solids and contaminants. You can’t drink it, you can barely bathe in it and so it has no other use than watering the ground and permeating back into the environment. Planet earth is a closed system to water, you can’t waste it. It either goes into the air and forms clouds or it goes into the ground and permeates the local aquifer. The water in your pool is spent, time to replace it, it’s as simple as that.

Now it may cost you an arm and leg to do that as your local water utility might charge you a good sum of money for the water, and perhaps overuse penalties in some jurisdictions … but that’s just the cost of ownership of a pool.

 

[kul]

I guess I was lucky to find a good company with decent equipment! Too bad about your neighbor. Sounds like it worked out a little less well for her.
I think the RO and drain/fill choice will be interesting over the next decade or so. There certainly aren’t very many companies who do RO and the cost can be prohibitive. I’d pick RO over a large drain/fill, but may consider it if I only had to do a small drain/fill. Though “small” depends on what’s going on and how much draining. Also depends on drought conditions. If I lived in a wetter area, maybe a drain and fill would be viewed differently. I dunno.

 

[Newdude]

+1. Even a 1/3 drain would help your upcoming battle a good deal.

 

[Bperry]

I’d think even draining a couple inches if you think some rain is coming to help fill it back up a bit. Anything to lower the cya even a bit will help.

 

[Flying Tivo]

On the good side, if you drain and start new, you will never ever have to drain your pool if you follow TFP guidelines. So you are doing more good than bad in the long run.

 

[boardergeek]

It depends on the rig used and the pressure differential on the membrane. A lot of equipment out in the field uses very undersized permeate pumps to reduce noise and power consumption and membranes that are either worn out or not properly spec’d to handle the TDS levels found in pools. Around here there’s only about two vendors that do it consistently and they never get better than 80%. My neighbor recently had it done and she had to add back about 25% of her total pool volume. Even after 2 full days of filtering, the guys rig only got her CH levels down to about 300ppm before he called it quits. If you got 90% then you can count yourself lucky for having a good vendor in your area. She also spent about 3 times more on the service than what it would have cost her in straight water replacement.

I really don’t understand the concept of “feeling bad” about dumping water. It’s pool water, it heavily laden with dissolved solids and contaminants. You can’t drink it, you can barely bathe in it and so it has no other use than watering the ground and permeating back into the environment. Planet earth is a closed system to water, you can’t waste it. It either goes into the air and forms clouds or it goes into the ground and permeates the local aquifer. The water in your pool is spent, time to replace it, it’s as simple as that.

Now it may cost you an arm and leg to do that as your local water utility might charge you a good sum of money for the water, and perhaps overuse penalties in some jurisdictions … but that’s just the cost of ownership of a pool.

I don’t feel bad about dumping water. I feel bad about using new good water for a pool in the middle a drought. And worry about how much water my well has and the cost of trucking it in is stupid high right now.

 

[kul]

I feel bad about using new good water for a pool in the middle a drought.

Same. It’s really a tough place to be in. Keep us posted on how you move forward.

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

I don’t feel bad about dumping water. I feel bad about using new good water for a pool in the middle a drought.

Yes, it's drilled into us Californians to limit our water use. But the water restrictions are only going to get worse. I would drain & refill right now before it actually starts to incur a penalty.