Inground Pool Upgrades - salt, new VS pump, and now FILTER? HELP!

[Enzodast]

So i've been online researching everything. and i'm stuck so now i'm here looking for real world opinions.

Pool size 40' x 20' - approximately 36000 gallons
No large debris in pool typically, nothing like someone with trees hanging overhead - no trees close by but we do get occasional leaves or rose pedals etc

i currently have a hayward filter/pump combo. pump is a single speed 2hp i think tristar....6 years old already fixed once. i am traditional chlorine now. moving to salt.

just ordered the new core-contorl55 from circupool and their 3hp VS pump. I'm considering adding in an AquacalS220 while i'm doing all of this work as well.

I was ready to do all of this and never considered my standard Hayward Pro-Grid Veritcal DE filter (48 sq ft). DO I CHANGE THIS???

The biggest issue i have every year is POLLEN. There is a critical two week window early in the season where we get pollen storms basically and it covers my pool. this wreaks havoc on the pool, filter system, and chemistry for usually a few weeks.

DO I get rid of the hayward DE filter also and potentially go with the CIRCUPOOL COMBO? The typhoon pre-filter and their largest size cartridge filter? I can't find much real world feedback on how people like these....definitely can't find info on if the typhoon can capture pollen...that would be great even to add just to my hayward filter.

Is that also an option? Typhoon added to my system but keep my current hayward filter system? I would love to have to backwash less....especially now going to a variable speed pump, little more worried about that than my current single speed with a simple on/off switch.

Sorry for the long thread but that's everything i'm going through...i've LOVE opinions on everything i'm considering but i know this is a filter/pump thread....so i wanted to focus there for this thread

Thanks!

 

[PoolStored]

You have a large pool. I would ditch the DE filter and get a Pentair Clean and Clear 520, if it will fit on your pad. If you choke on the price, get the 525 cartridge from Waterway.
Pre-filter is not worth it in my experience. Maybe the desert SW with dirt...but not pollen. Get some hairnets and put them in your skimmer basket. Weigh them down with a rock that is larger than the skimmer pipe. When they get full of pollen, throw them out and replace.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002XK2FS0

As to Heat Pump vs. Gas heater, I would go the biggest gas heater possible. YMMV...really depends if you have gas available. Heat pump won't do much until the end of May and by the end of August/early September the hours in the day where it's warm enough to really transfer heat isn't enough to do much good.

 

[Enzodast]

You have a large pool. I would ditch the DE filter and get a Pentair Clean and Clear 520, if it will fit on your pad. If you choke on the price, get the 525 cartridge from Waterway.
Pre-filter is not worth it in my experience. Maybe the desert SW with dirt...but not pollen. Get some hairnets and put them in your skimmer basket. Weigh them down with a rock that is larger than the skimmer pipe. When they get full of pollen, throw them out and replace.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002XK2FS0

As to Heat Pump vs. Gas heater, I would go the biggest gas heater possible. YMMV...really depends if you have gas available. It won't do much until the end of May and by the end of August/early September the hours in the day where it's warm enough to really transfer heat isn't enough to do much good.

all of my research is telling me electric to maintain the temp all season and minimize run costs. my neighbor has a gas heater and uses it maybe once a year because it's like $200 per two days to run in gas. i'm hoping to heat my pool electrically the whole month for about $200

the pentair catridge looks nice...are cartridges that much easier to maintain than DE? it sounds like the way i clean my robot cartridges but on a jumbo scale. if i have to do that often that would suck more than backwashing and washing the DE filters (maybe 3x a season currently). Is the waterway one decent enough compared to my DE system? i like the idea of pressures not being as big of an issue with these compared to DE and i dont have to deal with a multivalve.

 

[PoolStored]

Heat pump 140K vs. 400K Gas heater. Assume daily demand of 5dF

Assuming a 30K gallon pool. 140K heat pump vs. 400K gas heater. Further assume 5dF (degrees F) demand daily (may be off, but just an assumption)

Heat Pump.
30,000 x 8.3 = 249,000lbs of water.
249,000 / 140,000 = 1.77 hours to raise temp 1dFF ( this will be optimistic for a heat pump, heat pump efficiency varies dramatically with the air temperature, only reaching the listed BTU number when the air is quite warm/humid)...but let's roll with it.
1.77 * 5dF = 8.85hours of heating. Because of the optimism above, let's say 10hours
Heat pump Consumes about 5,000W/hour per 100,000 BTU. So 7,000W per hour for 140K unit.
10 hours, 7,000W, $.30/kWh = ~$21/5dF. ($.30 is CT average without delivery $)

Gas heater
400,000 BTU * .8 efficiency =320K BTU
249,000 / 320,000 = .78 hours to raise 1dF
Gas heater consumes 1g/h/100K BTU
Hourly consumption = 4g/h total
.78 *5dF = 3.9 hours
3.9 hours * 4g/H = 16g/day
16g/day = 20.6 Therms
Gas is $.868 /therm in CT (average, without delivery $). Natural Gas Rates by State | Choose Energy
20.6 x .868 = $17.72/Day

You can change to your rates and re-calculate.

Gas vs. electric. You need to keep your HP running to maintain your pool temp. Gas is better if you want to heat quickly, or heat early/late in the season. Before/after memorial/labor day, gas will work better.

On the filter front, it is really personal. With a 420/520 sqft cartridge you likely will get away with a 1-2x cleaning per year. No DE mess/backwash. If you are OK with the backwash process, then sticking with DE might be ok.

 

[Enzodast]

Thank you for the math. Everything I'm reading from users is about $150-$300 per month to run the heat pump and keep a constant temp of 83 or so degrees. It probably won't run at all in July unless it's cooling.

I don't get natural gas where I am and don't have a propane line running to my pool pad. I do have an electric line ready and waiting so there's install cost I need to worry about. Pool is about 36000 gallons fyi. Efficiency of the aquacal is 6.1 I believe not 5.0

I'm coming from a single speed pump that in July raises my electric bill about $500 alone. I'm going to a variable speed pump and I'm hoping the electricity saved with the VS pump directly offsets the cost to heat the pool. Is that an insane assumption? Research tells me it's not

 

[Enzodast]

Also propane cost for me would be $1.90 a gallon . again neighbor has a pool half my size and when he runs his propane heater for even two days he's crying about it being over a hundred bucks for just those two days....I'd rather spend $300/month and keep the temp up consistently.

What I'm terrified of is all these sites are lying to me I invest in the heater and it costs me $1000/month to heat the pool. That's what im afraid of.

But I have a central AC unit. It runs basically on a similar schedule already started running that for the summer and on the high side in July or August it raises my bill no more than $150-200. So I figured the heat pump cost should be similar certainly not triple or quadruple what my AC unit costs to run

 

[Newdude]

What I'm terrified of is all these sites are lying to me I invest in the heater and it costs me $1000/month to heat the pool. That's what im afraid of.

Just south of you with a HP on a 35k gallon pool it cost $600 for the cool month and $800 for the cold month. When that 2 month bill hit i ordered a solar cover on the spot and that cut it in half. $300/$400 was much more reasonable to extend the season. For the warmer months it was in the $100 range and we didn't even know with the ACs spiking the bill already.

 

[Newdude]

I'm coming from a single speed pump that in July raises my electric bill about $500 alone. I'm going to a variable speed pump and I'm hoping the electricity saved with the VS pump directly offsets the cost to heat the pool. Is that an insane assumption? Research tells me it's not

Pictures say 1000 words, so have 2000.
 

 

[Newdude]

The biggest issue i have every year is POLLEN. There is a critical two week window early in the season where we get pollen storms basically and it covers my pool. this wreaks havoc on the pool, filter system, and chemistry for usually a few weeks

500s carts handled an acre with 80+ oaks. I did clean them after the spring onslaught was finished, but it was for me, not because the pressure went up significantly. They could have gone all year but evenso, two cleanings was no biggie. This was just the spring mess.

 

[Newdude]

By comparison, my almost black swamp SLAM wasn't nearly as bad. I drained 2 ft and still had close to 20k gallons left to filter.





Large cartridges are the bees knees. If possible in your price range, get the 4 cartridge model so they're easier to handle.

 

[Enzodast]

thank you for the fabulous responses everyone. As of now it looks like i am holding off on the cartridge changeover...going to keep my DE filter for now...may change that just when it breaks and i need a new one.

For now i'll stick with the DE filter...good news is the pump looks to have the same height/install measurements as my hayward tristar which is great. only problem is i need 10 or so inches of straight pipe entering the pump and the way things lay out now it's about 8". Adding a few more inches hopefully wont be too tough.

Looks more and more likely i'm getting a heater as well....the pool company that's going to install it i'm sure will have their opinion on all of this too... i'll report back as things progress, thank you!

 

[PoolStored]

only problem is i need 10 or so inches of straight pipe entering the pump and the way things lay out now it's about 8". Adding a few more inches hopefully wont be too tough.

No you don't. That is good engineering practice for pumps without pump baskets and is a hold over from the water distribution industry where the pipe enters directly into the impeller inlet. With a pump basket in between the pipe and the impeller inlet, it won't make any difference as the pump basket is going to be the major contributor to flow turbulence into the impeller and not the pipe. If it fits, install it.

Is this way too many bends?

I’m getting good suction but don’t know if it would be any better without some of these bends…?

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