iAquaLink with In-Floor Cleaning System

[TheFlick]

Hello Experts! Hope you're are enjoying your summer and pools.
I had to replace my 24 year old single speed pump with a new VSP, so I decided to modernize my AquaLink controller with the iAquaLink and web based app.
Here's my situation: I have one pump and a combo pool/spa. I have an In-Floor system with two 5-port valves. There is a Jandy valve actuator between these two 5-ports valves to alternate water flow to each one. The iAquaLink has a feature so that when "In-Floor" is enabled in the setup, the solar JVA output on the iAquaLink board can be used to rotate the value every 20 minutes (see pic 1). Perfect.
Here's my problem: According to the owner manual, if "In-Floor" is enabled the filter pump will always run at the Preset 8 speed reserved for In-Floor (see pics 2 and 3). This is exactly what I am experiencing. I have a 3-hour run time scheduled with the pump set to Preset 8 followed by a 6-hour run time scheduled with the pump set to Preset 1. However, the pump runs at Preset 8 all of the time, just like I interpret the manual. I called iAquaLink tech support (aka Fluidra), and he said that sentence (see pic 3) could not possible mean what it looks like, otherwise you could never run your pump at low speed. But he had no explanation for my pump problem.
So, does this make sense? Does anyone have an IFCS with the "In-Floor" enable and able to program their VSP at a low speed?

Thanks all, Brett

 

[HermanTX]

Please take a screenshot of your VSP setup screen on your system. Just like what is shows in your photo 2 from the manual.
Also show a screenshot of programmed schedule. You may have some not set up on either the VS speed or Schedule.

 

[TheFlick]

Hi Herman, I was hoping you would respond

pic 1 - In-Floor enabled
pic 2 - speed settings for pump 5 (aka Jandy ePump)
pic 3 - I like creating OneTouch buttons and then scheduling the buttons (I feel like I have better understanding and control, but obviously I don't)
pic 4 - OneTouch button In-Floor* and its settings. The Jandy ePump speed is set to In-Floor SPD (i.e. 3000 rpm)
pic 5 - the schedule (my understanding when I schedule "Filter Pump" it automatically picks speed Preset 1)

 

[HermanTX]

Do you have 5 pumps? Is Pump 5 the same pump as Filter Pump and is denoted as the FILTRATION pump?
The Speed Settings shown are for Pump #5 and it looks OK assuming this is the filter pump.

I would change the Program Schedule to look like this
Filter Pump 0820 to 6pm - pump should start and ramp up to 1750 (Speed 1 on pump speed chart)
Spa Clean - 0830 to 9am - pump should auto ramp up to 2750 (Speed 2 on pump speed chart)
In Floor - 9am to 12pm - pump should auto ramp up to 3000 (Speed 8 on pump speed chart)
At 12pm the pump should auto ramp DOWN to 1750 (speed 1 on pump speed chart) - then shut off at 6pm

Disclosure - I do not have an IFCS but this is how it should work. Also, I have never seen a Schedule label with an (*) sign as shown on In Floor* and Spa Clean* - is this a label you created. Do they relate to the Speed Labels?

If there is any issue with above, the next thing I would do is to go back to the DEFAULT Speed Labels
Speed 1 is POOL
Speed 2 is SPA
Speed 8 is INFLOOR

We can discuss One Touch programing after we get the basic program working

 

[MSchutzer]

@HermanTX, I don’t think he has 5 pumps, but rather he has one of the new mid 2022 or later Epump’s that use the new serial addressing.

I ran into this for the first time with another poster the other day who was working out his VSP stuff.

A serial addressed pump shows up as pump 5 on the web interface, and shows up as Pump 1234 on the App where 1234 is the last four digits of the serial number.

That conversation was only a few days ago, but someone already updated the Wiki for the Aqualink RS, see the section on setting VSP pumps as all the screen shots of the serial addressed pump made their way to the Wiki.

This poster must also have a new system with rev W or higher firmware as that is needed to support a pump 5.

 

[HermanTX]

@HermanTX, I don’t think he has 5 pumps, but rather he has one of the new mid 2022 or later Epump’s that use the new serial addressing.

I ran into this for the first time with another poster the other day who was working out his VSP stuff.

A serial addressed pump shows up as pump 5 on the web interface, and shows up as Pump 1234 on the App where 1234 is the last four digits of the serial number.

That conversation was only a few days ago, but someone already updated the Wiki for the Aqualink RS, see the section on setting VSP pumps as all the screen shots of the serial addressed pump made their way to the Wiki.

This poster must also have a new system with rev W or higher firmware as that is needed to support a pump 5.

Thanks - I go read the Wiki again to get updated.

 

[TheFlick]

@HermanTX ,
As @MSchutzer stated, the new Jandy ePumps are assigned starting with Pump5. I only have 1 VSP.

I will try your recommended schedule method; looks hopeful. BTW, I used the (*) sign when labeling the OneTouch buttons because (until I get familiar with this app) I was confused when I would see a list of devices and see In-Floor multiple times. I didn't know if I was selecting a speed, a pump, a button, etc. I now recognize that buttons are listed at the end of the list.

Give me a day or two to try this out. I'll post the results. Thanks.

 

[TheFlick]

I did a pretty simple test that I believe confirms the iAquaLink behavior with IFCS.

Normal Behavior:
1. I set the VSP Speed Setup labels back to the default names (see pic 1)
2. I disabled "In-Floor" in system setup (see pic 2)
3. I cleared the schedule (see pic 3)
4. I selected "Filter Pump" from the home menu
5. The pump started priming (see pic 4)
6. After 3 minutes the pump jumped up to Preset 1 (see pic 5)

IFCS Behavior:
1. I repeated the above test with "In-Floor" enabled (see pic 6)
2. After 3 minutes the pump jumped to Preset 8 (sec pic 7)

Confirming that with In-Floor enabled and filter pump running the speed will always be Preset 8.
From the iAquaLink manual (page 36): Preset 8: When the In-Floor clean mode is enabled and the pump is running, it will be running at this preset speed.

Unless someone has figured out a work around, I don't think I can run the pump at a low speed with "In-Floor" enabled. Which is a shame because I really wanted to take advantage of the iAquaLink automatically rotating JVA every 20 minutes for the 5-port valves. I'm going to call tech support again tomorrow and see what they say about it.

 

[MSchutzer]

This really doesn’t make sense as there should be a way to turn it on and off once it has been enabled. I just took a look at the manuals and I read the same thing that you did, it says the pump runs at the in floor speed when enabled.

But it also says it rotates the valve every 20 minutes, so what does that mean, 20 minutes on, then 20 minutes off? Does the speed drop after 20 minutes? And is the valve an on/off valve, or a water direction steering valve?

Have you looked in your equipment list in the App (or Other Devices on/off on the web interface) to see if there is an in floor device?

It will be interesting to see what Jandy Tech support says, I can’t believe that there isn’t some way to turn it on and off once enabled.

 

[HermanTX]

Unless someone has figured out a work around, I don't think I can run the pump at a low speed with "In-Floor" enabled. Which is a shame because I really wanted to take advantage of the iAquaLink automatically rotating JVA every 20 minutes for the 5-port valves. I'm going to call tech support again tomorrow and see what they say about it.

Did you change the schedule? I see where you stated you cleared the schedule. Show us the schedule screen.
I would set a schedule that calls out the INFLOOR for a certain time and monitor that time.

We have discussed IFCS with other members and no one that I can remember state that the IFCS takes over the speed control full time.

 

[TheFlick]

@HermanTX
@MSchutzer
You are right "it doesn't make sense", but after 2.5 hours on the phone with tech support today this is the correct operation. I was transferred 3 times, each time to a better expert, finally to the highest level who confirmed that this is a short coming in the program, probably a carry over from days before VSPs. She speculated that with the introduction of VSPs the program wasn't concerned with IFCS. So I asked her if I could disable "In-Floor" so that everything is back to normal and some how put my In-Floor JVA that I need to oscillate on a schedule. She assigned the unused Solar JVA to Aux V1 (a virtual auxiliary relay) and then labeled Aux V1 as "In Floor JVA" (see pics 1 and 2). I then scheduled "In Floor JVA" for 20 minutes on and 20 minutes off during the 3-hour time the pump runs at "In Floor" speed (see pic 3). This is a really clumsy work-around because if I ever need to change the run time for "In Floor" I will need to change all of the JVA times as well. Also, without adding a lot of schedules, the JVA is not oscillating during the 6 hours at low speed. At low speed the IFCS heads aren't popping up, but since these are the only return jets from the filter it would be nice if the JVA continued to oscillate. Additionally, if on a Saturday afternoon I dump a bunch of a granulated chemical in the pool I can turn on "In Floor" to boost the speed, but the JVA won't oscillate.

Problem solved for now, but I think I will reinstall my DIY solution that I had to remove so that it wouldn't jeopardize the warranty on this new iAquaLink board. 15 years ago I wired a timer-relay to the Cleaner JVA socket with the output going to my In-Floor JVA. I chose the Cleaner socket because it outputs 24V only when the pump is on and the system is in Pool Mode. This way I can change the schedule all I want or just turn on the pump whenever and voila, the JVA oscillates. BTW, I also use the Cleaner socket in conjunction with Aux 4 to power a Stenner chlorine pump for the same reason.

Side notes: Tech support recommended scheduling high speed within the low speed hours. No biggie, either way works and is completely acceptable, but it's just a little easier to move the high speed time without having to coordinate the low speed stop/start times. @MSchutzer your question about my In-Floor JVA. I have two 5-port distribution valves (see yellow arrows in pic). There is a 3-way JVA (i.e. the In Floor JVA) circled in red that directs the water from the filter pump to the 5-port valves. This is the one that needs to oscillate as specified by the pool designer. This is necessary because the pump cannot produce enough pressure to pop up more than 3 or 4 heads at a time.

Thank you guys for your time and help! And if anyone ever figures out a more elegant solution I would love to hear about it!
Cheers, Brett

 

[HermanTX]

@HermanTX
@MSchutzer
You are right "it doesn't make sense", but after 2.5 hours on the phone with tech support today this is the correct operation. I was transferred 3 times, each time to a better expert, finally to the highest level who confirmed that this is a short coming in the program, probably a carry over from days before VSPs. She speculated that with the introduction of VSPs the program wasn't concerned with IFCS. So I asked her if I could disable "In-Floor" so that everything is back to normal and some how put my In-Floor JVA that I need to oscillate on a schedule. She assigned the unused Solar JVA to Aux V1 (a virtual auxiliary relay) and then labeled Aux V1 as "In Floor JVA" (see pics 1 and 2). I then scheduled "In Floor JVA" for 20 minutes on and 20 minutes off during the 3-hour time the pump runs at "In Floor" speed (see pic 3). This is a really clumsy work-around because if I ever need to change the run time for "In Floor" I will need to change all of the JVA times as well. Also, without adding a lot of schedules, the JVA is not oscillating during the 6 hours at low speed. At low speed the IFCS heads aren't popping up, but since these are the only return jets from the filter it would be nice if the JVA continued to oscillate. Additionally, if on a Saturday afternoon I dump a bunch of a granulated chemical in the pool I can turn on "In Floor" to boost the speed, but the JVA won't oscillate.

Problem solved for now, but I think I will reinstall my DIY solution that I had to remove so that it wouldn't jeopardize the warranty on this new iAquaLink board. 15 years ago I wired a timer-relay to the Cleaner JVA socket with the output going to my In-Floor JVA. I chose the Cleaner socket because it outputs 24V only when the pump is on and the system is in Pool Mode. This way I can change the schedule all I want or just turn on the pump whenever and voila, the JVA oscillates. BTW, I also use the Cleaner socket in conjunction with Aux 4 to power a Stenner chlorine pump for the same reason.

Side notes: Tech support recommended scheduling high speed within the low speed hours. No biggie, either way works and is completely acceptable, but it's just a little easier to move the high speed time without having to coordinate the low speed stop/start times. @MSchutzer your question about my In-Floor JVA. I have two 5-port distribution valves (see yellow arrows in pic). There is a 3-way JVA (i.e. the In Floor JVA) circled in red that directs the water from the filter pump to the 5-port valves. This is the one that needs to oscillate as specified by the pool designer. This is necessary because the pump cannot produce enough pressure to pop up more than 3 or 4 heads at a time.

Thank you guys for your time and help! And if anyone ever figures out a more elegant solution I would love to hear about it!
Cheers, Brett

Wow. Thanks for sharing. This is a very interesting solution (work around).

Asking @ajw22 - Should this info be added to the iAquaLink Wiki regarding that if INFLOOR is enabled then the system will only run at that speed? Or at least made a reference to this thread regarding INFLOOR being enabled.

 

[MSchutzer]

Thanks for the feedback, that solution truly is a kludge, but I guess it works even if its very awkward.

But that's interesting what she did with a virtual Auxiliary, I didn't know you could create those. Did you figure out how she went about creating the virtual Auxiliary listings as I don't see that available in the system setup menu anywhere?

Maybe that is something that tech support has to do? I'm curious, if you click on the help button, what version of the firmware does it report that you have? I wonder if the virtual Aux's is something added in the newest versions of the firmware?

 

[TheFlick]

Hey @MSchutzer I wasn't able to watch her assign the JVA but when I got home I was able to repeat the steps. On the second page of system setup is where I found "Assign JVAs" (see pic 1). I seem to remember her (Marie) saying that because of my revision I had a lot of available virtual auxiliary options. I now see that I have 24 (see pic 2). Attached is my revision status.

I agree that the solution is a kludge. The only nice part is that it uses standard features, but just very limited. When I implement my old relay-timer solution again I will share it in this thread. It's kind of a kludge too, but it works completely like I want it too (i.e. no need to program the JVA oscillation times; it just oscillates any time the pump is running in pool mode, regardless of speed).

 

[TheFlick]

@HermanTX , @MSchutzer , @ajw22
Hey, I figured out a fix! It was kind of right in front of us the whole time. "You are not going to bend the AquaLink to your will" (@ajw22 , 2023), but I kind of did.

I came up with one solution, but due to an accidental scheduling error on my part while testing I discovered a better solution. The iAquaLink manual says "Preset 8: When the In-Floor clean mode is enabled and the pump is running, it will be running at this preset speed." Although this seemed like a hard and unbreakable rule, there is one rule that trumps it, "When multiple speeds are active the higher speed wins" (@ajw22 , 2023). So first, I re-enabled "In-Floor" clean mode in system setup, set Preset 8 to 1700 (anything lower than Preset 1), and made Preset 7 my IFCS speed (3450 for now). Then second, I just scheduled Floor System as subset of Filter Pump. Now, anytime the filter pump runs (from schedule or from button) it runs at Preset 1 and the In-Floor JVA oscillates back and forth every 20 minutes as designed by AquaLink. Likewise, if I bump the speed up to "Floor System" (scheduled or manually) the oscillation continues.

This appears to be the definitive and eloquent solution I was looking for!

 

[MSchutzer]

Nice! I like the idea of using the Aqualink speed rules against itself to outsmart itself.

Nicely done!

 

[ajw22]

What Rev is your Aqualink board?

 

[HermanTX]

So first, I re-enabled "In-Floor" clean mode in system setup, set Preset 8 to 1700 (anything lower than Preset 1), and made Preset 7 my IFCS speed (3450 for now). Then second, I just scheduled Floor System as subset of Filter Pump. Now, anytime the filter pump runs (from schedule or from button) it runs at Preset 1 and the In-Floor JVA oscillates back and forth every 20 minutes as designed by AquaLink. Likewise, if I bump the speed up to "Floor System" (scheduled or manually) the oscillation continues.

This appears to be the definitive and eloquent solution I was looking for!

This is a great idea and one that uses the rules of speed to your advantage.
I still can't believe that this issue has not arisen before with many members with IFCS. My only answer to that is they may be using Pentair automation and not Jandy.

@ajw22 - should the iAquaLink Automation Wiki be updated?

 

[ajw22]

Asking @ajw22 - Should this info be added to the iAquaLink Wiki regarding that if INFLOOR is enabled then the system will only run at that speed? Or at least made a reference to this thread regarding INFLOOR being enabled.

See Jandy Aqualink RS - Further Reading

 

[ajw22]

I still can't believe that this issue has not arisen before with many members with IFCS. My only answer to that is they may be using Pentair automation and not Jandy.

It seems to me that this IFCS function is a new Aqualink Rev past T.2. There have been new Revs appearing recently - V, W, Y - with new features.

The mention of virtual circuits is a new feature that is long overdue in Aqualink.