How to clean up my spillover, including a small leak?

[johig]

Bear with me, this is a question with a few parts. I understand that the "proper" solution to some of those parts might be to rip something out and start again. While I respect that opinion, that's not feasible for me at the moment, so I would appreciate other options, even if they are not perfect. Thanks in advance for reading!

I have a spillover from my raised spa into the pool. As you can see in the picture, it has accumulated calcium buildup over time (almost four years since the original fill). My calcium is high; I plan to take care of that separately and have already reduced it from 1,200 ppm to 950 ppm with some strategic partial refills. In addition, there is one small spot (shown in the closeup photo) with a significant calcium buildup due to what appears to be a very slow leak coming through the grout. It took me a long time to suspect it is a leak; there is no obvious flow of water, it just stays damp to the touch. My theory is the water continually evaporates and leaves calcium behind. Due to some (probably over-aggressive) use of diluted muriatic acid and scrubbing to clean that main calcium patch, the grout around and below that area is thin and partially warn away.



With all this in mind, I have the following questions:

1. I assume it is best to mostly or completely empty the spa behind the spillover wall before I attempt any repairs, is that correct?
2. What is the best way to clean off the calcium buildup, bearing in mind I have glass tile? Assuming I will have to do some regrouting anyway (see below), is diluted muriatic acid an option?
3. What, if anything, can I do to stop or slow down the leak? If I remove the grout in that area completely, is there anything I can add between the tiles before regrouting that will help?
4. I have read that I can grout over the old grout where it has thinned as long as I make sure the existing grout is intact and clean. Does that sound right? I would prefer not to remove more grout than is necessary.
5. The grout is TEC (color = #939 "mist") and it appears to be sanded. Any suggestions on the best product to use? My research seems to indicate TEC "Power Grout" is their best sanded product for pools (Stain Resistant & Efflorescence Free Grout). They sell an epoxy product but I don't think it would match the current grout and the installation sounds more difficult, so that's probably not a good idea for this repair.
6. Any thoughts on how the leak is occurring? There is a pipe that runs inside that wall, but it is much lower than the spot that stays damp. My theory is that water is coming from the spa side of the wall or possibly the top due to imperfect waterproofing.

Thanks!

 

[Texas Splash]

I assume it is best to mostly or completely empty the spa behind the spillover wall before I attempt any repairs, is that correct?

From the interior of the spa for the suspected leak, yes.

What is the best way to clean off the calcium buildup, bearing in mind I have glass tile? Assuming I will have to do some regrouting anyway (see below), is diluted muriatic acid an option?

Always start with the softest product and work your way up. For example, a diluted muriatic acid mixture and a brush, then straight MA, then perhaps some fine wet sandpaper, and perhaps a pumice stone (very wet an softly). With any such process, always test a small area first and let ut dry to see if you like the results.

What, if anything, can I do to stop or slow down the leak? If I remove the grout in that area completely, is there anything I can add between the tiles before regrouting that will help?

If you do indeed have a leak from the inside (plumbing or the spa shell itself) seeping out (i.e. efflorescence), it may be tough. You can try to re-grout, but the moisture might try to find a new escape route.

I have read that I can grout over the old grout where it has thinned as long as I make sure the existing grout is intact and clean. Does that sound right? I would prefer not to remove more grout than is necessary.

Always ideal to remove as much of the old as possible. The new grout may adhere to old grout and look good cosmetically, but it may not resolve the seeping issue.

The grout is TEC (color = #939 "mist") and it appears to be sanded. Any suggestions on the best product to use? My research seems to indicate TEC "Power Grout" is their best sanded product for pools (Stain Resistant & Efflorescence Free Grout). They sell an epoxy product but I don't think it would match the current grout and the installation sounds more difficult, so that's probably not a good idea for this repair.

I'd prefer to ask someone in the industry like @AQUA~HOLICS .

Any thoughts on how the leak is occurring? There is a pipe that runs inside that wall, but it is much lower than the spot that stays damp. My theory is that water is coming from the spa side of the wall or possibly the top due to imperfect waterproofing.

That is the million dollar question. I wouldn't rule out either. Even with a pipe lower than the seeping area, perhaps the moisture trapped within the wall is rising up and that just happens to be where it can seep out? You won't know until a proper assessment can be done.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

I am not familiar with that specific product, I would contact NPT or local swimming pool tile installers.

For cleaning the glass tile be very careful, if scratched it will show more obviously than standard tile due to the depth perception in the product. For the outer edges of calcium deposits of the spillway that are not as built up, SR3 is acidic and thick to allow for a longer time to cling onto the vertical surface.

 

[ajw22]

I think your leaks are from cracks in the grout around tiles on your spillover letting water seep into the shell. Then the water looks for places to drain out creating the Efflorescence - Further Reading you see.

That is more of a problem with 1X1" glass tiles which have many more grout lines then larger format tiles.

It becomes difficult with all your grout lines keeping the grout perfectly sealed. You have to plan on frequent examination and patching of the grout to fill any small cracks that develop.

You should not need to drain the spa to work on the tile on the outside walls. Just lower the spa water level so no water will spillover while grout cures.

I circled some areas in your pic where the grout lines are questionable.

I recently fixed a bunch of loose tiles and grout problems on my spa outside walls and cleaned a lot of efflorescence off. And I have larger format tiles on a 20+ year old pool.

Does your spa spillover run continuously?

What is the inside finish of your spa?

 

[johig]

From the interior of the spa for the suspected leak, yes.


Always start with the softest product and work your way up. For example, a diluted muriatic acid mixture and a brush, then straight MA, then perhaps some fine wet sandpaper, and perhaps a pumice stone (very wet an softly). With any such process, always test a small area first and let ut dry to see if you like the results.


If you do indeed have a leak from the inside (plumbing or the spa shell itself) seeping out (i.e. efflorescence), it may be tough. You can try to re-grout, but the moisture might try to find a new escape route.


Always ideal to remove as much of the old as possible. The new grout may adhere to old grout and look good cosmetically, but it may not resolve the seeping issue.


I'd prefer to ask someone in the industry like @AQUA~HOLICS .


That is the million dollar question. I wouldn't rule out either. Even with a pipe lower than the seeping area, perhaps the moisture trapped within the wall is rising up and that just happens to be where it can seep out? You won't know until a proper assessment can be done.

Thanks! I appreciate the point-by-point feedback.

 

[johig]

I am not familiar with that specific product, I would contact NPT or local swimming pool tile installers.

For cleaning the glass tile be very careful, if scratched it will show more obviously than standard tile due to the depth perception in the product. For the outer edges of calcium deposits of the spillway that are not as built up, SR3 is acidic and thick to allow for a longer time to cling onto the vertical surface.View attachment 530864

Thanks, I will try the SR3.

 

[johig]

Does your spa spillover run continuously?

What is the inside finish of your spa?

Thanks for responding! What did you use to clean off the efflorescence? To answer your questions:
At the moment, the spillover runs whenever the pump is running, so 8 hours per day right now. That's my typical setup for summer to make sure everything is getting chlorinated when the pool might be in use. In the winter I use a different schedule that runs the spillover for an hour or two (I forget the details off hand, but it's enough to replace 100% of the spa water volume each day) then just runs for the pool for the rest of the time. I implemented that primarily to slow down my pH rise.
The inside of the spa (and pool) is StoneScapes Mini Pebbles. All waterline tile is the 1" squares shown in the photos.

 

[ajw22]

What did you use to clean off the efflorescence?

Careful scraping and chipping with a stainless steel spackling blade. Lots of patience and elbow grease.

I did not want to use an acid solution on my 20+ year old grout that was still sturdy.

At the moment, the spillover runs whenever the pump is running, so 8 hours per day right now. That's my typical setup for summer to make sure everything is getting chlorinated when the pool might be in use.

I think that is way excessive and contributes to those problems on the spillover.

I run my spillover 20 minutes at 9AM and 20 minutes at 2PM and that keeps the spa water well chlorinated for the say. Before the 2PM spillover I run my spa blower and spa jets for 3 minutes each to churn up the water.

 

[proavia]

To add to what @ajw22 said in post #8.....
Set up Spillover mode on your EasyTouch to run twice daily for 20 minutes to refresh your spa water. Continuously running via the spa makeup line (different than Spillover mode) for 8 hours is excessive and causing a major part of the issue you are having. 20 minutes twice daily is more than enough to keep the spa water refreshed.

Show us a few pics of your equipment pad so we can see an overview of your system and its plumbing.

 

[johig]

To add to what @ajw22 said in post #8.....
Set up Spillover mode on your EasyTouch to run twice daily for 20 minutes to refresh your spa water. Continuously running via the spa makeup line (different than Spillover mode) for 8 hours is excessive and causing a major part of the issue you are having. 20 minutes twice daily is more than enough to keep the spa water refreshed.

Show us a few pics of your equipment pad so we can see an overview of your system and its plumbing.

Sorry for the delayed response, I missed your post when you wrote it. I'm familiar with what you are explaining and followed your advice. I actually had it set up that way last winter when I was less worried about constant chlorination. What you refer to as the "spa makeup line" is labeled as the "spa bypass" line on my system. It has a manual valve that I can leave closed and then just program the spillover to run a couple of times a day.

 

[proavia]

Sorry for the delayed response, I missed your post when you wrote it. I'm familiar with what you are explaining and followed your advice. I actually had it set up that way last winter when I was less worried about constant chlorination. What you refer to as the "spa makeup line" is labeled as the "spa bypass" line on my system. It has a manual valve that I can leave closed and then just program the spillover to run a couple of times a day.

Great - running the spa spillover 15-20 minutes twice daily will also slow you pH rise.