How should I compare prices from pool builders.

[FuturePoolOwner]

Hi everyone,

First time building a pool. I am feeling overwhelmed looking at multiple quotes and hard to compare so many of them given different options. Most of the prices I've quoted are within +/- 10K of each other but the options can be vastly different.

Looking at a 20x 40 pool vinyl.

1. What is the best way to compare different quotes from PBs?

2. My current strategy is to determine the price of the essentials to compare across PBs then build up from there. For example:
-Pool size
-Dirt removal (notice across different quotes this may or may not be included; one gave an estimate of $250-450 per load that needs to be dumped).
-Cantilever coping
-Stamped concrete priced per sqft
-Gas hook-up/length of run
-Electrical hook-up/length

3. Skimmers and returns
-Some give me just 1 skimmer and 2 returns, others include 2 skimmers/4 returns

4. I am not sure if I should be asking for pricing on specific equipment: winter cover over mesh cover, 20mil vs 28 mil liner, SWGs, type of filter, type of pump, # and type of LED lights, automation etc... Are these easy to change later? I'm worried that by asking upfront for these items they will significantly upcharge the price of the pool.

Here is an example quote I received for 20x40 pool:
58000 base price of pool + 12090 for options

 

[ajw22]

4. I am not sure if I should be asking for pricing on specific equipment: winter cover over mesh cover, 20mil vs 28 mil liner, SWGs, type of filter, type of pump, # and type of LED lights, automation etc... Are these easy to change later? I'm worried that by asking upfront for these items they will significantly upcharge the price of the pool.

Now you understand what purchasing departments do when they get multiple bids and try and get apples to apples comparisons.

Nail down exactly what you are buying now. Get specific manufacturers, model numbers, and specifications of what you are buying. Otherwise you leave yourself open for the builder to use whatever equipment he has around.

Builders make more money on change orders. Anything will cost more on a change order after you are married to the builder then now when you can negotiate prices and the builder wants to close the deal.

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[sktn77a]

If the prices are all close, I would rely on references. Both recent and older. At least half of the pool builders out there are crooks or incompetents and good references is really the only way to filter the bad apples out.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Question - when do you want this pool?

Winter is coming in New Jersey very soon and you do not want to build a pool in winter time. So I would think you have lots of time to comparison shop.

Also, an “economic winter” is coming. Recession is looming large and I, personally, would not sign on to anything until I see where that is going. Right now, our economy is still hung over on inflation and prices for everything are still high. Yes, not all prices are elastic, but if you can wait a little while you might find yourself in more of a buyers market where a “hungry” PB might be willing to come down in price or offer upgrades for less.

I say keep shopping …

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I just noticed that the quote called out $34/ft for each foot of gas line over 50ft .... wow! 10 years ago we built our pool and the charge was $12/ft for anything over 50ft. We had a 150ft run from the meter to the equipment pad.

 

[darkrider]

Shopping pool builders is a difficult process to begin with, but I wouldn't let price alone dictate your decision. References and reputation mean so much in terms of the overall outcome! Did they start and finish on time? Did they have on-site presence throughout the process, or was it mainly upsupervised subs? Did they try and increase prices with change orders or variables that were built into the contract? How were the communications? In hindsight, would you choose the same pool builder? These are all questions I would want to ask actual customers.

I would also add that we were a bit non-traditional in how we went about our bidding, as we did not specify a design, but rather just location, approximate size, and general budget and features. We left it up to the PBs to quote based on what they thought would go best in our yard. Believe it or not, this became the easiest way for us to screen, as the results were so drastically different. You had some PBs who gave it very little thought, and it showed. You also had some who made decisions we wouldn't have initially even thought about, but were well thought out and were done for good reason. You also have some who will send out salespeople who have very little knowledge of what actually goes into a build. Personally, even if you've owned a pool before and have a good idea of what you want, I really liked giving the PBs the flexibility to bid based on their recommended layout, equipment, etc.! We learned so much about the PBs doing this, and I think it resulted in the best overall outcome. It goes without saying, we didn't accept everything they proposed, and we asked a ton of questions before committing to the PB we chose. We also came armed with the knowledge of reading a ton of the content here. In the end, we didn't end up going with the highest priced or cheapest bid, but the one that made the most sense for us and our yard.

 

[FuturePoolOwner]

Thank you for responses. I am getting close to a contract. A pool builder is proposing that they begin excavation and installation to begin next month with installation of basic pool parts, plumbing, gas and electrical and backfill. They would finish it, pour concrete deck and do vinyl liner in spring. There reasoning is that now is a less busy time and they would allow for the ground to settle. Is this a good idea to begin building so close to winter? Also not sure how I will feel with a destroyed backyard for close to half a year.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thank you for responses. I am getting close to a contract. A pool builder is proposing that they begin excavation and installation to begin next month with installation of basic pool parts, plumbing, gas and electrical and backfill. They would finish it, pour concrete deck and do vinyl liner in spring. There reasoning is that now is a less busy time and they would allow for the ground to settle. Is this a good idea to begin building so close to winter? Also not sure how I will feel with a destroyed backyard for close to half a year.

That’s a big deal - no backyard for nearly 6 months. And no accessing it either because it’s technically a construction site and can be dangerous. Also, I’d be very concerned with cave-ins caused by excessive rain or precipitation. Anyone who has ever dug a giant hole at the beach knows that it’s stable and holds its shape … until water hits it. Then it caves in and you’ll never get the original shape back. I can understand their desire to do work when it’s slow because I’m sure they operate as a very lean business in the winter months, but their needs shouldn’t drive bad decision making on your part. You have no idea what this coming winter and spring holds for you in terms of weather … are you willing to make that gamble?

I’d say thank you, but not right now. They’ll give you the spiel that “they won’t guarantee a price”, “you’ll lose the spot on our busy schedule”, “costs will go up” and blah, blah, blah. They want to lock in a contract because they know that a recession is looming and they may be forced to cut their prices if business starts to dry up.

As I said above, I’d wait and see where the economy is headed. You absolutely will not be swimming in anything for the next 6 to 8 months so why fork over the capital just to sit and wait??

 

[JamesW]

Thank you for responses. I am getting close to a contract. A pool builder is proposing that they begin excavation and installation to begin next month with installation of basic pool parts, plumbing, gas and electrical and backfill. They would finish it, pour concrete deck and do vinyl liner in spring. There reasoning is that now is a less busy time and they would allow for the ground to settle. Is this a good idea to begin building so close to winter? Also not sure how I will feel with a destroyed backyard for close to half a year.

I would want everything to begin and end as quickly as possible.

Is the builder giving any promises for timeframes with hard guarantees?

What payment schedule is the builder proposing?

 

[HermanTX]

There are several comparisons to make for each PB proposal
Price - compare the big items - excavation cost, liner cost, total equipment cost
Reputation - any bad reviews, any lawsuits in last 3 years, etc.
References - try to visit a pool recently completed
Completion schedule - what is he proposing and does his reputation or references support that claim - i.e. is he always 10 weeks late or is he mainly on schedule (+/- 4 weeks)
Payment plans - try to minimize any down payment (before any work done), and also try to hold 10% of total until ALL work is completed - final sign off of job done

Most PB will use 1 of the big 3 equipment mfg. for pump, heater, filter, SWCG - so lump those as 1 bucket, but ensure there is consistency - all have quoted a Variable Speed Pump, all of quoted natural gas heater or all quoted a heat pump, all have quoted a cartridge filter, etc. Same is true for liner mfg. ensure there is similar quality of the brands offered.

I would not let price be the only driver. There is almost for certain one guarantee. The price will change as you progress throughout the project and the schedule will change. The goal is to account for those risks in your evaluation prior to signing the contract. Also, ensure everything is in the contract - down to the model number of the equipment to be installed.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

This %

Also, ensure everything is in the contract - down to the model number of the equipment to be installed.

So many PBs will write quotes where the equipment says generic phrases like “Water pump variable speed” OR “ Filtration - cart “. No info on size or model. That then gives the PB the right to use whatever he wants or can find with substitutions. You absolutely want details on all the equipment you expect to get.

Same goes with a liner - you want brand, pattern and thickness specified and no substitutions without notification.