How do I use lube to pull light wire?

[gdo]

I have a long run (~130 ft) to pull a globrite wire. I want to use lube to facilitate the pull.

A couple of questions:
- What lube should I use?
- How should I use it?

I've done a bit of research and this is what I found:

I see folks recommending Liquid Dawn, others some 3M product.

I was assuming that I have to drop it in the conduit from the junction box, and then add water so it "pushes" the lube towards the niche/pool?

My run goes down and then back up again towards the pool, so I probably need to seal the feeding side to make sure the lube is better pushed past the lower section?

But then if Liquid Dawn isn't this going to create soapsuds that will make a mess on the junction box side? How do I make sure it reaches the other end of the conduit on the pool side? Liquid Dawn is going to be very diluted once it gets there and it doesn't really have any color I could spot. Perhaps a viscosity check with the hand is all I need?

If using a "real wire puller lube" such as 3M, is it an issue if too much of it gets into the pool? Health or equipment dangers?

Should I start the pull without lube and only add the lube once I start needing to exert too much pulling force?

Sorry for what it sounds like dumb questions, but I'm not able to find these specific answers on the forum or even the internet at large (google/youtube, etc).

Thanks in advance!

 

[Mdragger88]

Use the real stuff - theres a gel version & a foam.

You just put a glob in the pipe (at your j box/where you’re feeding the wire from)
then coat the head (where the pull string is connected to the wire) really well & the wire with it as you pull - this requires 2 people- a puller & a feeder.
I assume you have a pull string in the pipe already?
You want to make the head as slim as possible while also making sure it is secure & doesn’t come loose.
You can wipe out the junction box with a rag when you’re done.
The majority of the lubricant will just remain in the conduit.

 

[gdo]

You just put a glob in the pipe (at your j box/where you’re feeding the wire from)
then coat the head (where the pull string is connected to the wire) really well & the wire with it as you pull - this requires 2 people- a puller & a feeder.

Thanks for the info @Mdragger88 !
A couple more Qs:

Do I push that glob down from the junction box? Add water to help it travel down?

Should I keep coating the wire as it gets fed through the niche?

I assume you have a pull string in the pipe already?

Yes, I do! I had that attached when I pulled the broken light wire out.

Any suggestions for a good yet slim connection between that string and the new wire? I've used a few feet of duct tape successfully in the past (it helps avoiding a bulge by keeping the wires parallel to each other), but not sure it'll work for such a long run and with lube (could it dissolve the tape's adhesive?)

 

[Bill1974]

There is string/tape specifically for pulling wire through conduit. Usually it's a tape and does not stretch much.

You could slather the wire pulling compound on to the wire as you feed it in. Yeah it's messy.

I am thinking soap in the pool isn't a good thing.

If you have concern about the string you already pulled, use it to pull a wire pulling snake through or a sting/tape/rope that has enough strength.

I usually just bend the wires and use electrical tape to secure to the pull string/tape/snake. if there are multiple conductors I step them back so there is not one large step up from the pull string/tape/snake to the wire/cable , but multiple smaller steps for each conductor. For a pool light this should not be needed, just don't create a large wad where the wire and pull string/tape/snake join.

 

[1poolman1]

I have a long run (~130 ft) to pull a globrite wire. I want to use lube to facilitate the pull.

A couple of questions:
- What lube should I use?
- How should I use it?

I've done a bit of research and this is what I found:

I see folks recommending Liquid Dawn, others some 3M product.

I was assuming that I have to drop it in the conduit from the junction box, and then add water so it "pushes" the lube towards the niche/pool?

My run goes down and then back up again towards the pool, so I probably need to seal the feeding side to make sure the lube is better pushed past the lower section?

But then if Liquid Dawn isn't this going to create soapsuds that will make a mess on the junction box side? How do I make sure it reaches the other end of the conduit on the pool side? Liquid Dawn is going to be very diluted once it gets there and it doesn't really have any color I could spot. Perhaps a viscosity check with the hand is all I need?

If using a "real wire puller lube" such as 3M, is it an issue if too much of it gets into the pool? Health or equipment dangers?

Should I start the pull without lube and only add the lube once I start needing to exert too much pulling force?

Sorry for what it sounds like dumb questions, but I'm not able to find these specific answers on the forum or even the internet at large (google/youtube, etc).

Thanks in advance!

Is the pool empty?

 

[gdo]

Is the pool empty?

No, it's not.

 

[gdo]

You just put a glob in the pipe (at your j box/where you’re feeding the wire from)

I just realized I didn't understand this correctly: in my case, I'm feeding the wire from the pool side, not the j-box (i.e. from pool/niche towards the j-box). You mean I should just put a glob in the niche, so it gets pushed in as I feed the wire, correct?

 

[1poolman1]

No, it's not.

Wire-pulling lube is water soluble, regardless of where it is applied, the water in the conduit will dilute a lot.

 

[gdo]

Wire-pulling lube is water soluble, regardless of where it is applied, the water in the conduit will dilute a lot.

Alright! What would an alternative be?
My pool guy says he uses liquid Dawn (which is why I mentioned it in my original post) when he does these kinds of jobs.

 

[Bill1974]

If you have 3/4" or 1" conduit, a decent pull tape or snake, and only 2 or 3 90's it should pull pretty easy with someone pulling and someone feeding. Hang ups on conduit joints is the only concern. If they were chamfered there isn't much to snag on if you make the pull connection between the wire/cable and the pull tape or snake smoothish.

If the old cable came out cleanish and pretty easy, it should be pretty easy with two people to pull. If the old cable was dirty, flushing the conduit out couldn't hurt.

Lube may not even be needed, it's only going to make it easier and a little messier.

 

[Mdragger88]

I just realized I didn't understand this correctly: in my case, I'm feeding the wire from the pool side, not the j-box (i.e. from pool/niche towards the j-box). You mean I should just put a glob in the niche, so it gets pushed in as I feed the wire, correct?

Correct & really coat the head of the wire.
Do your best to coat the wire as u feed it.
This may be tricky with water in the pool - have you drained below the niche?

 

[1poolman1]

Alright! What would an alternative be?
My pool guy says he uses liquid Dawn (which is why I mentioned it in my original post) when he does these kinds of jobs.

Have never needed to use pulling lube in a wet conduit. The water is usually all the lube needed.

 

[gdo]

Correct & really coat the head of the wire.
Do your best to coat the wire as u feed it.
This may be tricky with water in the pool - have you drained below the niche?

I have not. I'm not sure how much dry length it would buy me because of the terrain: the path drops down almost right away, before going back up to the pool equipment. Most of the conduit length is still going to be "under the water line" and full of water (unless I blow the water out somehow?) except for the first few feet around the niche.

 

[gdo]

Have never needed to use pulling lube in a wet conduit. The water is usually all the lube needed.

How far have you been able to pull with water only? I'm looking at 130 ft (not sure how many bends there are).

 

[gdo]

Has anybody used this? It doesn't really say whether it's meant to be used in a flooded conduit.

PoolTone™ Wire Pulling Lubricant Lube 4 oz

 

[1poolman1]

I have not. I'm not sure how much dry length it would buy me because of the terrain: the path drops down almost right away, before going back up to the pool equipment. Most of the conduit length is still going to be "under the water line" and full of water (unless I blow the water out somehow?) except for the first few feet around the niche.

The conduit will be full of water to the level of the pool. If the run rises above that, the lube would be useful if put in the conduit at the junction box. That way, once the new cable gets out of the water it will hit the lube. In that case, I would use dish soap as it is lighter and would run down the conduit farther.

Once pulled a 150' cord completely around a pool (thanks pool builder) with only water in the conduit.

 

[gdo]

The conduit will be full of water to the level of the pool. If the run rises above that, the lube would be useful if put in the conduit at the junction box. That way, once the new cable gets out of the water it will hit the lube. In that case, I would use dish soap as it is lighter and would run down the conduit farther.

Oh that's smart... In my case, I'd say the first 120' are probably going to be under water level and about 5-10' towards the junction box are going to be dry.

So just regular Liquid Dawn down that pipe? I mean, a full bottle or? Costco size?

I could also try to "force push" the dishsoap at the junction box with a water hose, and try to let it make its way all the way to the niche. Would that be helpful or is the gain from adding soap to the water (as opposed to just targeting the dry part) going to be negligible?

 

[Mdragger88]

I think you’re overthinking the situation.
$1 worth of soap will do the trick.
As mentioned you probably don’t even need the lubricant at all with there being water in the conduit. Its 1 cable in what I assume is a 3/4” or 1” pipe (you haven’t said).
If it gets too hard to pull you can just pull it back out & try again but I have a feeling you won’t have any problems. There was a cable in there before & I doubt they used a wire puller to get it in.

 

[gdo]

If it gets too hard to pull you can just pull it back out & try again but I have a feeling you won’t have any problems. There was a cable in there before & I doubt they used a wire puller to get it in.

I don't know how they got it in, but it was extremely difficult getting it out.

I wrote it up in more details at Need to replace broken lights - what make/model are these?

I'll give it a shot and see how it goes.
Thanks everyone for all the hints/tips!

 

[gdo]

OK - I finally got around to doing this a couple of days ago and, as @Mdragger88 said, I was probably overthinking it. I had been so scarred by the difficulty in removing the old wire that I expected I would be struggling as much putting the new one in.

It turned out to be pretty uneventful. We tried applying the lube to the wire going in at the niche side, but it seemed to come off almost immediately as it hit the water and ended up in the pool (as blobs of blue substance), so we figured we'd give a try without the lube hoping that the existing water in the pipe would help, and we'd reassess the situation if it got too hard to pull. It never did get too hard to pull, so we never had to stop.

One thing I noticed though, is that there was a strong sewer smell at the junction box side (present but less strong at the niche side). I can only imagine it's all the bacteria that has been trapped and developing in that stagnant water in the pipe for years... but it got me thinking: how dangerous is that? When I pulled the wire with my string, I got in contact with that nasty water and was wondering if I should have been wearing gloves. I was also wondering if there was a way I could sanitize it, or flush it. Flushing it towards the pool seems like it would fill the pool with nasty stuff. Perhaps I can pump it out from the junction box side? Or just add some sanitizer somehow? How do pros deal with this?

Thanks again everyone (@Mdragger88 , @1poolman1 , @Bill1974 and others)!

Cheers!