Hayward Ultra Vac Cleaner is erratic

[ranajo]

I am new to the forum and a beginner when it comes to pools so please bear with me.

We bought this house with an in-ground pool. All seems well except for the Haywood pool vacuum that has been frustrating the heck out of me. Initially it would barely move - in fact, it sat there stationary - and would not even flap when raised off the floor while still in the water. I checked with a local pool shop and was told that it probably required a new A frame. Well, I went the whole way and replaced the A frame and just about all the other parts that tend to wear off such as the shoes, the gearbox, etc. Once I did this the vacuum did begin to move but it was erratic and would sometimes stop and refuse to budge.

I have cleaned the filter, etc and there seems to be sufficient suction though I don't know if it is consistently adequate. The vacuum is attached to a dedicated port on the side of the pool adjacent to the skimmer.

I would appreciate guidance as to whether there is anything that I can do to rectify the problem. If you need additional information please let me know.

 

[ranajo]

Here are a few images of the plumbing relating to my set up:



- - - Updated - - -

I wanted to post a couple of additional images but it says I am at my limit!

The labels on the above image are not clear but from left to right it says "cleaner", "skimmer" and "main drain"

 

[Ecoke]

They come with a flow gauge that you install in order to do 2 things. 1. Test to see if you have proper suction and 2. Enables you to adjust the suction via diverter valves or flow control gadget that comes with it. Don't know if you have either...but if you do its worth slapping the flow gauge on to see where youre at. I used a Navigator for the last 18 years..finally sent it to the graveyard and went with a Pemtair Dorado...the Navigator has too many moving parts which continually wear out and as you found out..are not cheap. I will tell you..Amazon & Ebay replacement parts are MUCH cheaper then your local PS.

 

[ranajo]

They come with a flow gauge that you install in order to do 2 things. 1. Test to see if you have proper suction and 2. Enables you to adjust the suction via diverter valves or flow control gadget that comes with it. Don't know if you have either...but if you do its worth slapping the flow gauge on to see where youre at. I used a Navigator for the last 18 years..finally sent it to the graveyard and went with a Pemtair Dorado...the Navigator has too many moving parts which continually wear out and as you found out..are not cheap. I will tell you..Amazon & Ebay replacement parts are MUCH cheaper then your local PS.

Thanks for the response. I will look at getting a flow gauge as you recommend. As I said, I inherited the Hayward cleaner with the pool/house and may need to look at replacing it though I wish I had not spent almost $100 replacing various parts.

 

[Ecoke]

Ranajo a couple other things that have been issue for me when using the Navigator. Make sure you have no holes in the hoses and that they are pushed in as far as you can get them to each other at connections. The hoses sometimes crack due to sun exposure allowing air to leak in as they somewhat float across the surface of the pool. They can be small and hard to see. You can hold them under water and blow into each section using your hand to cap the opposit end while looking for air bubbles. I have found a few doing this over the years. It doesn't take much of a leak to make a difference in operation of the cleaner. You can also look at pump lid and/or return jets to see if you are getting air bubbles from your suction line, indicating air being introduced from somewhere. Turn your suction line valve to full open to test suction. While this may be too much suction for normal operation, it can give you an indication that you have enough suction available. Too much suction during normal operation enables the cleaner to climb the sides of the pool and continue above the water line introducing air into the system. That is why you use the flow gauge I mentioned earlier. It allows you to set the suction level in between a Min/Max line on the guage which is proper suction.
This critter can be frustrating and seemingly tempermental but they do do a pretty good job. I hope this helps!

 

[Ecoke]

Replying to my own post...the things that make you go hmmm...another thought. If you have the proper adapter for the hose to suction line and are able to connect the cleaner to the skimmer....try that using skimmer suction to see if it operates any differently. You can use skimmer suction for normal operation. The cleaner comes with an adapter to use to connect it there. I never used the skimmer as I have a dedicated vac suction line as you do.That could narrow the problem down to your vac suction piping etc..Good luck!

 

[ranajo]

Replying to my own post...the things that make you go hmmm...another thought. If you have the proper adapter for the hose to suction line and are able to connect the cleaner to the skimmer....try that using skimmer suction to see if it operates any differently. You can use skimmer suction for normal operation. The cleaner comes with an adapter to use to connect it there. I never used the skimmer as I have a dedicated vac suction line as you do.That could narrow the problem down to your vac suction piping etc..Good luck!

Ecoke, you have been very helpful and I am going to attempt the checks you suggested.

Unfortunately, I don't have an adapter that would be usable with the skimmer. I assume one can buy one through Amazon. I know there is definitely suction at the dedicated vac suction port because I can literally feel it as being quite marked. Whether it is too much or too little, I don't know and that is where the gauge you suggested would help.

Yesterday evening, I did a backwash and rinse and thereafter the cleaner began moving but that lasted about a couple of minutes and then it stopped and has not moved since then.

 

[ranajo]

Ecoke, here is where we stand:

I checked out the hose and it is fine with no leaks. The cleaner still does not move when connected to the dedicated port but - and here is the good news - when I connected it directly to the skimmer port like you suggested, even without the adapter that is appropriate for that purpose, it worked like a champ moving around the pool at a fairly rapid clip, climbing the walls and generally doing a great job of vacuuming the pool.

So my assumption is that the suction at the dedicated port that is meant for the vacuum has either too little or too much suction - I say too much because I have read that excessive suction can also make a cleaner non-functional in terms of movement. I suspect it is a case of inadequate suction.

Given the above, are there any steps I can take to ascertain why it does not work when connected to the dedicated port meant for the vacuum that is located next to the skimmer?

One thing that I'd request you to check out is the image that I posted at the start of the thread. The valves shown in the image are the way they were when I got the pool/house. You will notice that the valve on the left labelled "Cleaner" appears to be closed, and the one in the middle labelled "skimmer" is partly open. Could this have anything to do with the amount of suction that I am getting at the dedicated port for the vacuum? Is the "cleaner" valve the one that relates to the dedicated vacuum port?

Please excuse the newbie questions because this is the first house that I have owned with a pool and I am just not up to speed with how all of this works.

 

[Philo]

My 2 cents.....I had one of the same cleaners and was buying $75+ in parts per year. Got a Barracuda for $200 three years ago and only had to buy $8 diaphragm recently. It also works like a champ in my pool (it scared the kids when it tried to climb out the pool and made a loud growling...fixed).

 

[ranajo]

My 2 cents.....I had one of the same cleaners and was buying $75+ in parts per year. Got a Barracuda for $200 three years ago and only had to buy $8 diaphragm recently. It also works like a champ in my pool (it scared the kids when it tried to climb out the pool and made a loud growling...fixed).

Thanks for the suggestion ...... but if I am having an issue with suction using the Hayward, is there a reason why the same problem would not continue with the Barracuda? Unless, of course, the Barracuda needs less suction than the Hayward.

 

[Ecoke]

Philo is right..as I mentioned in my first reply..those things forever need parts replaced.. now to your valves....the line on the left marked cleaner... is in fact open. On ball valves which those are, when the handle is parallel to the pipe it is open...the middle valve is partially open and the valve on the right is closed. I'm womdering if the line marked cleaner is in fact the skmmer since you have the most suction through it. I would close the middle valve and then check to see if in fact the vac line has suction...if it does not..then check the skimmer as they could be marked wrong. If they are marked correctly...then closing the skimmer line could increase the suction on the vac line enough for the cleaner to operate properly. If it is too much, you can slowly open the skimmer valve until it bleeds off a bit of suction so you are getting proper vac operation as well as skimmer operatin. It does not take much movement in the valve to have an impact on the other suction line. Trial and error is your best friend. As long as you don't shut all three off at the same time you will not cause issues with the pump lacking water.

if you have too much suction the cleaner will tend to climb the walls all the way out above the water line causing it to suck air into the system. You can regulate that by bleeding off suction to the skimmer as I mentioned above. There is also a setting on the side of the cleaner that can help with that...if you havent already..download the owners manual and read up...I forget what its called ...it is marked I, II, III. I forget which way to move it..manual will tell you.

Hope this helps...and you don't ever need to apologize for asking questions...we have all been helped on here at one time or another...just pay it forward when you can!

 

[Philo]

When I have my motor on HIGH speed, the suction is VERY hard on the palm of my hand (have a hard time pulling it free). On the LOW speed setting, barely any suction at all. The Barracuda vacuum will move around on the LOW speed.

 

[ranajo]

Philo is right..as I mentioned in my first reply..those things forever need parts replaced.. now to your valves....the line on the left marked cleaner... is in fact open. On ball valves which those are, when the handle is parallel to the pipe it is open...the middle valve is partially open and the valve on the right is closed. I'm womdering if the line marked cleaner is in fact the skmmer since you have the most suction through it. I would close the middle valve and then check to see if in fact the vac line has suction...if it does not..then check the skimmer as they could be marked wrong. If they are marked correctly...then closing the skimmer line could increase the suction on the vac line enough for the cleaner to operate properly. If it is too much, you can slowly open the skimmer valve until it bleeds off a bit of suction so you are getting proper vac operation as well as skimmer operatin. It does not take much movement in the valve to have an impact on the other suction line. Trial and error is your best friend. As long as you don't shut all three off at the same time you will not cause issues with the pump lacking water.

if you have too much suction the cleaner will tend to climb the walls all the way out above the water line causing it to suck air into the system. You can regulate that by bleeding off suction to the skimmer as I mentioned above. There is also a setting on the side of the cleaner that can help with that...if you havent already..download the owners manual and read up...I forget what its called ...it is marked I, II, III. I forget which way to move it..manual will tell you.

Hope this helps...and you don't ever need to apologize for asking questions...we have all been helped on here at one time or another...just pay it forward when you can!

Your post has been immensely helpful and more to the point, by adjusting the valve for the skimmer and closing it a little more than the position it was, the suction in the dedicated port for the vacuum increased to a point where the vacuum now works just fine! I can't believe the amount of time I have spent on this issue when the basic adjustment needed was to the skimmer valve! It was your suggestion to try and connect the vacuum to the skimmer port that showed the issue was one of suction and did not have anything to do with the cleaner itself. Interestingly, no one, including the people at the pool shops offered these suggestions.

Anyway, I have a functioning vacuum and I thank you for all your help.

 

[ranajo]

When I have my motor on HIGH speed, the suction is VERY hard on the palm of my hand (have a hard time pulling it free). On the LOW speed setting, barely any suction at all. The Barracuda vacuum will move around on the LOW speed.

Philo, thanks for the information on the suction and how the Barracuda works with relatively little suction. As I stated in the post above this one, I currently have a functioning Haywood vacuum thanks to the suggestions by Ecoke. It cost me about $80 to replace various parts and I will look at getting a Barracuda down the line given that the Haywood does seem to need parts changed fairly regularly.

 

[Ecoke]

WOOHOO...glad you got it going!...here's to your sparkly TFP!