Hayward Heater Needs New Heat Exchanger After 1.5 Years??

[bobby2175]

Hi Everyone,

Looking for a second opinion on an issue we are having with our spa heater.

We built our house a couple of years ago and have a large pool and large spa. The spa is around 2500 gallons and is used year round in a cold weather environment in northern Ohio (my wife is nuts).

This winter, the heater stopped igniting and I have not been able to get it back up and running. I had our pool installer come out today and they said I needed to replace the heat exchanger for $1600+ and that there is no warranty.

Their reason for the replacement is that there is a lot of soot on the exchanger and because of that, they are also questioning the gas supply line. The pool gas line is a dedicated 2" line that only feeds the two separate pool and spa heaters - as the pool installer had recommended. We did have a major gas leak in this line that was finally discovered about 15 months ago that was likely present since the initial installation of the pool, so it's very possible that there was inadequate gas supply during this time although we didn't notice it with our ability to heat the spa or pool. This has since been repaired.

My questions:
1. Is it possible that a heat exchanger would need replacement so quickly?
2. Is there any other reason that soot would accumulate?
3. When I look around the vents on the top of the heater, there is a noticeable amount of soot around them and when I look through the vent, I do see some corrosion on a silver plate just inside. This same areas on the pool heater looks pristine and new. Any thoughts?
4. Anything else I should be considering?

Thanks for all of your help.

Bobby

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

What model number heater are we discussing?

 

[ajw22]

Were the gas pressures checked?

@swamprat69 may have ideas.

 

[bobby2175]

So sorry, forgot to mention the model - it's the H250FDN.

I'm uncertain if the pressures were checked. It is a direct line from the meter.

 

[ajw22]

A leaking gas line would cause a too lean mixture with too much air and not enough gas.

Sotting comes from a too rich mixture with too much gas and not enough air.

However if you had the gas leak when the heater was installed and the gas valve regulator was adjusted with the leak and then the leak was fixed it would cause too much gas and a rich mixture that soots.

The pressures should have been checked when the sooting was seen to see if the gas valve regulator was properly set.

 

[bobby2175]

A leaking gas line would cause a too lean mixture with too much air and not enough gas.

Sotting comes from a too rich mixture with too much gas and not enough air.

However if you had the gas leak when the heater was installed and the gas valve regulator was adjusted with the leak and then the leak was fixed it would cause too much gas and a rich mixture that soots.

The pressures should have been checked when the sooting was seen to see if the gas valve regulator was properly s

A leaking gas line would cause a too lean mixture with too much air and not enough gas.

Sotting comes from a too rich mixture with too much gas and not enough air.

However if you had the gas leak when the heater was installed and the gas valve regulator was adjusted with the leak and then the leak was fixed it would cause too much gas and a rich mixture that soots.

The pressures should have been checked when the sooting was seen to see if the gas valve regulator was properly set.

This makes a lot of sense. The gas leak would have been present when the heaters would have been initially set. Is this something I can check myself (someone that does not know anything about pool heaters, but willing to learn).

 

[ajw22]

You need a manometer and know how to safely work around natural gas to check the pressures.

Best to call a NATE Certified Gas Tech.

 

[swamprat69]

Sooting is caused by incomplete combustion. There can be a number of reasons for incomplete combustion. The leak should not have been the cause of the sooting. Depending on the size of the leak it may not have even caused a drop in the gas supply pressure to the heater. Sooting can be cleaned up and is not a reason to replace the heat exchanger, but the cause of the sooting must be determined and eliminated. The best course of action would be to have a competent service technician clean the heater and determine the root cause of the sooting.

 

[bobby2175]

I'm sorry for the terrible question as it's going to show how little I know, - How do you find a component service technician vs my pool company wanting to replace?

 

[oldprophet]

Is your heater indoors? If so, then air flow and improper venting could cause sooting. Also, condensation is a cause of sooting

 

[swamprat69]

Try this site to find a NATE certified technician... https://natex.org/ Go to "homeowners... find a contracor with NATE-certified technicians"... When contacting a contractor ask to speak to the service manager and explain that you have a gas fired pool heater that is similar to a boiler. Some contractors will be reluctant to work on a pool heater because some pool heater specific parts may not be available at regular HVAC parts suppliers, but any certified NATE technician will be competent to work on the heater. It will be a plus if you have the installation/service guide available for the technician.

 

[bobby2175]

Ok, will give this a shot. After searching, there are only 2 within 45 miles, so I've got my fingers crossed. They are both closed for the weekend. Would you consider the contractors listed on the Hayward site as competent to handle these things? Limited number there too, but gives me a couple more options. Interesting that my pool company is not listed on their site.

The heaters are outdoor units. The two heaters are within 5 feet of each other. You can see in the pictures, the one for the pool is pristine looking, but the spa one has quite a bit of soot.

 

[1poolman1]

Hi Everyone,

Looking for a second opinion on an issue we are having with our spa heater.

We built our house a couple of years ago and have a large pool and large spa. The spa is around 2500 gallons and is used year round in a cold weather environment in northern Ohio (my wife is nuts).

This winter, the heater stopped igniting and I have not been able to get it back up and running. I had our pool installer come out today and they said I needed to replace the heat exchanger for $1600+ and that there is no warranty.

Their reason for the replacement is that there is a lot of soot on the exchanger and because of that, they are also questioning the gas supply line. The pool gas line is a dedicated 2" line that only feeds the two separate pool and spa heaters - as the pool installer had recommended. We did have a major gas leak in this line that was finally discovered about 15 months ago that was likely present since the initial installation of the pool, so it's very possible that there was inadequate gas supply during this time although we didn't notice it with our ability to heat the spa or pool. This has since been repaired.

My questions:
1. Is it possible that a heat exchanger would need replacement so quickly?
2. Is there any other reason that soot would accumulate?
3. When I look around the vents on the top of the heater, there is a noticeable amount of soot around them and when I look through the vent, I do see some corrosion on a silver plate just inside. This same areas on the pool heater looks pristine and new. Any thoughts?
4. Anything else I should be considering?

Thanks for all of your help.

Bobby

Unless it is leaking, a sooted heat exchanger can be cleaned and put back into service. Its just a lot of work to tear down and reassemble a heater to do it as the exchanger has to be removed and cleaned away from the heater cabinet.

 

[ajw22]

Would you consider the contractors listed on the Hayward site as competent to handle these things?

You cannot judge their competency in diagnosing and fixing a difficult gas heater problem by the company being a Hayward dealer.

I am sure they are competent in recommending replacing heaters.

 

[bobby2175]

Thank you so much, everyone! I can't thank you enough. I'll report back after I get in touch with someone next week.

 

[bobby2175]

Quick update - after trying several companies from the NATE website, everybody said they would not work on a pool heater. I asked the last one I talked with if they would recommend anyone and funny enough, they mentioned the company that did the entire HVAC at my house. I spoke to the service manager and he is coming out himself on Monday and said he would be willing to figure it out and clean the heat exchanger! Will report back once he has a chance to take a look.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

This statement stood out to me -

The spa is around 2500 gallons and is used year round in a cold weather environment in northern Ohio (my wife is nuts).

Your wife’s mental status notwithstanding, pool heaters generally are not designed to run with cold water AND cold supply air. I’ve never lived in Northern Ohio so I have no frame of reference but it sounds snowy and cold. If your 2500 gallon spa is getting cold, and for most gas heaters “cold” is defined by water with a temperature of less than 60F, AND if you air temps are freezing, that is going to cause combustion problems as well as condensation problems. The condensate moisture from combustion of natural gas is very corrosive. It will chew up a heat exchanger in no time at all.

For these winter months, was the spa being kept warm all the time or was there a lot of hot/cold cycling going on?

 

[bobby2175]

What a great perspective. When we first talked with the pool builder on doing this and utilizing the hot tub 365 days a year, they had no issues or concerns. They told us to maintain the temperature at 70 degrees and heat it up when we needed to.

Up here, it does get pretty cold. I'd say much of the winter is below freezing and yes, the heater is on all of the time maintaining that 70 degrees and then running up to 100 degrees on demand.

I'd love nothing more than to shut it down for the winter. If this is truly an issue, I can see us closing it until spring.

Thanks.

Bobby

 

[JoyfulNoise]

What a great perspective. When we first talked with the pool builder on doing this and utilizing the hot tub 365 days a year, they had no issues or concerns. They told us to maintain the temperature at 70 degrees and heat it up when we needed to.

Up here, it does get pretty cold. I'd say much of the winter is below freezing and yes, the heater is on all of the time maintaining that 70 degrees and then running up to 100 degrees on demand.

I'd love nothing more than to shut it down for the winter. If this is truly an issue, I can see us closing it until spring.

Thanks.

Bobby

Is the equipment out in the open or in a shed?

 

[bobby2175]

It's out in the open alongside the side wall of the garage. See attached pic.