Grout mishap for Pool of Doom

AmyJo

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
Jun 18, 2015
712
Atlanta, GA and St Croix USVI
Pool Size
11000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Hi all - rather than post yet another question on my huge renovation post that no one will see - I thought I’d create a little post here. I need to know if this is going to be ok.

The renovation saga continues. After our disastrous first tile job last year and now the second tile job almost completely finished ..... it was discovered today that we need two additional bags of grout. When I called to reorder, I was told that I wasn’t ordering the correct product - that instead of Laticrete Permacolor that I had originally ordered, returned a few days later and swapped out for another color and had redelivered last spring - was actually Laticrete REGULAR 1500 Sanded Grout - NOT Permacolor. I wasn’t the one to pick it up and never checked the new bags - as we did an even swap for another color of the same grout purchased and listed on the original order - never even occurred to me. First mistake. Our original installer verified that the color was correct once received and I thought all was well. ?*??

After ALL of this - the grout is not what we want. The tile distributor says we can either clean out the existing grout (for what, 10,000 little itty bitty tiles??) or just stick with the 1500 grout which “should be fine even though it’s not as good for pools as Permacolor.” OMG. Is this ever going to end???? It’s not the new installers fault. I’m stupidly contracting all of this. So yep - MY fault.

Therefore, my question is this - ARE we ok with regular old sanded grout and NOT the Permacolor epoxy grout FORMULATED for pools?
If the regular sanded grout is fine, then why would there be a newer, better, non-cracking alternative??

I guess there is no choice here, but it would help me sleep better tonight if any of you have regular sanded grout with glass mosaic tile and it’s performing well.

My concerns are many. There are a few large grout lines in one corner where a wall meets a step and then the waterline. I’m concerned about this. The installer made the decision as he felt it looked better than little silvers of tile. I’m guessing easier too.
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Will attach a few photos here. Please note that this is a renovation of an existing pool with issues - and we are tiling an area that was never meant to be tiled. The tile itself is an irregularly rustic cut mosaic.
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Out of square shell + glass mosaic tile = not optimal conditions. I’m trying hard to be accepting and understanding that this was a tough job. Nevertheless, I would have made different decisions if I had been laying out the tile.

We were told the waterline tile which obviously doesn’t have enough grout applied was 100% “finished.” I almost cut my hand running it across the surface that I couldn’t see as I was crouched down over it. When we spoke to the installer who has been calling and calling wanted to come by and pick up a check for the “finished” job and how he could think that - he exclaimed “well I ran out of grout!” ?*??
 
Amy, I am putting in a call to a MASTER pool builder bdavis). He will know the truth and let you know what to do. Hold on a bit while he gets back with us.

Kim (NO cheering here and MANY adults words for you :()
 
All I can tell you is that I have applied 1x1 mosaic tiles in a pool line and even though they had webbing on the back they were actually really hard to get perfect.

I did them on my spa and there not perfect.. but still look good. No one notices the corners except me.

The individual tiles want to slide around as you apply them.. maybe there are tricks but it is not an easy install vs larger tiles.

B
 
That grout is fine for submerged use providing you wait 14 days to submerge according to the data sheet. Both 1500 and Permacolor are cement based grouts. Based on the pic, the inside corner looks a bit sloppy, could probably have been laid out better, and the tile had a bit too much grout removed during cleaning. That said, this tile looks like a total nightmare to install. The hand cut/custom mosaics like this one will always give a non uniform "custom" appearance.
 
I can see your concern. But, first up the grout is fine thanks use, so that’s good news. Secondly I think the nature of the tile means that it will be near impossible to lay each individual tile perfectly. In your build thread I think you spoke about wanting a tile that was old worldly or something to do with being fitting for the house and pool. I actually think you will love this tile once you have water. You didn’t want a modern, laser cut precision tile. I think your job requires you to have so much attention to detail that it’s hard not to do that on a job where it’s never intended to be perfect. Once the headache of getting it all done is over, I really think you will appreciate it’s quirkiness. I can picture it with water in your yard and I think it’s perfect. When my pavers were laid I drove myself nuts analysing them. In the end I treated like a CYA test... I glanced, then looked away. Anything that took my eye immediately in that glance, I flagged for correction. They fixed the areas albeit with a bit of a grumble. Chin up, I think you’re going to have a beautiful pool.
 
Amy, I’ve used the permacolor grout on a different project (mesh slate flooring tile) where the installer overwashed it, mixed in a wrong color plus an expired lot and at the same time, had not adequately sealed the rough slate surface to protect it from getting grout in the face grooves, etc.

I think you’re all set, but if you had wanted a different color, I wanted to let you know that the manufacturer has permacolor epoxy dye that can be painted into the grout line to change the tone. And yes, I was crazy enough to do that...only took 36 hours on my knees with a tiny paint brush ;)

So if you’re worried about the color fading (I don’t know that I would be in that setting) I just wanted you to know there’s an option to put the “perma” in the perma color. Latimer’s folks will help you with that if you call them.
 
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I can see your concern. But, first up the grout is fine thanks use, so that’s good news. Secondly I think the nature of the tile means that it will be near impossible to lay each individual tile perfectly. In your build thread I think you spoke about wanting a tile that was old worldly or something to do with being fitting for the house and pool. I actually think you will love this tile once you have water. You didn’t want a modern, laser cut precision tile. I think your job requires you to have so much attention to detail that it’s hard not to do that on a job where it’s never intended to be perfect. Once the headache of getting it all done is over, I really think you will appreciate it’s quirkiness. I can picture it with water in your yard and I think it’s perfect. When my pavers were laid I drove myself nuts analysing them. In the end I treated like a CYA test... I glanced, then looked away. Anything that took my eye immediately in that glance, I flagged for correction. They fixed the areas albeit with a bit of a grumble. Chin up, I think you’re going to have a beautiful pool.

Thank you. You’re very sweet. I’m mainly worried about the grout holding up and not cracking or changing color. The corner that looks so bad - and the grid not lining up is in the most noticeable corner of the pool. I expected the tile to be slightly irregular, but not badly done in the corners and on edges. Oh well.

You’re definitely right about my job making me like this. If this was a client’s project, I would have probably been there watching the tile go in. I had planned to mark everything that needed to be changed, but the installer came and grouted without us knowing or being prepared.
 
Amy, I’ve used the permacolor grout on a different project (mesh slate flooring tile) where the installer overwashed it, mixed in a wrong color plus an expired lot and at the same time, had not adequately sealed the rough slate surface to protect it from getting grout in the face grooves, etc.

I think you’re all set, but if you had wanted a different color, I wanted to let you know that the manufacturer has permacolor epoxy dye that can be painted into the grout line to change the tone. And yes, I was crazy enough to do that...only took 36 hours on my knees with a tiny paint brush ;)

So if you’re worried about the color fading (I don’t know that I would be in that setting) I just wanted you to know there’s an option to put the “perma” in the perma color. Latimer’s folks will help you with that if you call them.

Unfortunately I do not have the Permacolor, but regular sanded grout. I specified Permacolor and paid for it - but regular sanded grout was delivered and used. Permacolor is supposed to be the best for pools - and glass mosaics. :( The good news it that the color is correct!

Brava to you for diligently dyeing your grout to the correct color. [emoji4]
 

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That grout is fine for submerged use providing you wait 14 days to submerge according to the data sheet. Both 1500 and Permacolor are cement based grouts. Based on the pic, the inside corner looks a bit sloppy, could probably have been laid out better, and the tile had a bit too much grout removed during cleaning. That said, this tile looks like a total nightmare to install. The hand cut/custom mosaics like this one will always give a non uniform "custom" appearance.

Thank you! It means a great deal to read this. This has been a very trying pool ever since we moved in - and the renovation even more so. It seems everytime we turn around there’s another mistake happening.

The tile was a nightmare and this is the second batch of it. It just makes me so annoyed that we couldn’t even get it right the second time! The rustic cuts and the irregularity was expected, but sloppy workmanship and inability to match up a simple grid pattern - not so much. I’m hoping that the AquaBright finish plus TFP Water will be so gorgeous that no one else notices! Of course I will constantly stare at it .....
 
All I can tell you is that I have applied 1x1 mosaic tiles in a pool line and even though they had webbing on the back they were actually really hard to get perfect.

I did them on my spa and there not perfect.. but still look good. No one notices the corners except me.

The individual tiles want to slide around as you apply them.. maybe there are tricks but it is not an easy install vs larger tiles.

B

Thanks B. It’s definitely a difficult tile. But I bet you at least paid attention to matching up rows! Did you end up with big grout lines in the corners?
 
It would be a pretty easy fix to cut out the last corner tiles and reset and regrout just that corner.

Tiles can be cut at the grout line with an angle grinder then a chisel to pop them out. That's about 15 minutes work once you are there with the right tools.

And then another 15 min to reset.

Its your pool and if that corner will bother you.

Now im going to go down to my spa corner and look at it again tomorrow.

B
 
They are fixing the areas that don’t have enough grout and have sharp edges exposed, right?

Let’s see a non-close-up view.
 
Amy? He fixed the little step?

Girl I am going to take your magnifying glass away! When I look at the last pics of the steps and wall all I see the PRETTY BLING! It is oh so pretty! Step back and look at it in the overall and you will see what I see-----------a work of art! :hug:

Kim:kim:
 

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