Draining Above Ground Pool - Questions

[hvstle]

Hey all... this post will likely make a few of you shake your heads at me, and for that I apologize. However - there is no where better for me to ask.

TL;DR - How serious of a risk in damaging my liner am I facing if I drain my pool, deep clean it, and refill it in the same day?

Full story - You all helped me last year open my pool. The previous owner had a winter cover on it, but it had a bunch of holes and tears and was nasty. My wife and I spent a stupid amount of money on chemicals and it was a giant pain in the butt spanning over a month of working on to finally get it to crystal clear, swimmable water.

Towards the end of July my pump died, it took me over a week to get a new one installed, electrician to come out and wire it up because I bought a 220 instead of a 110 like it was previously. After that we had bad and cold weather for over a week. By the time this was all over - my pool was disgusting and it was mid August. I said F it and we just left the pool alone. I "winterized" it in terms of getting the water levels where they should be, draining everything, etc. However, it was not balanced or covered because I still hadn't bought a new cover, and didn't think covering a nasty green pool was worth it.

Now, it's starting to warm up and the pool is unfreezing. I talked to the city, got a 4600 GPH pump, and enough hose to drain it to the street (the city manager came out to talk to me and he gave me permission.) One the pool is completely thawed out I want to drain it. I then starting researching that, and I did a cursory search on here but didn't find what I wanted quick enough and I suspect I'll have questions during my process so I figured I'd pop a thread and keep it all here. The biggest fear I have now on this idea is the vinyl shrinking or something else happening that will ruin the pool.

SO, ultimately, if I am able to knock this out in a day - do you think I am okay? Should I leave 1ft of water in it? 2ft? More? I am hoping to do it AS SOON as it thaws, but before it gets too warm outside.

Thoughts?

Thanks all!
Hvstle

 

[Newdude]

Welcome back hvstle.

(And i moved you to above ground pools)

How serious of a risk in damaging my liner am I facing if I drain my pool, deep clean it, and refill it in the same day?

Liners need 12 to 18 inches of water to hold them in place. Some have successfully got theirs to lay back nice and tight, but most fail and need a new liner.

You can drain down to 18 inches, or a little further if you watch the liner for any signs of pulling away. Then add a foot, drain it back out (perhaps even at the same time) and when you refill, you'll only have a little battle left.

With only a little original water left, and cool weather, it'll be a easier SLAM Process

 

[VinnyinNJ]

As a AG pool owner who had a winter cover split during the winter many years ago I want you to think about not doing this if your pool doesn't have a bunch of debris sitting on the floor.

If it's just green and yucky,, chlorine will clear it up. Yes you need a lot but it will go from dark green to light green quickly. I don't know what kind of filter you have but if it's a sand filter get some diatomaceous earth (DE) to get it to filter finer. I had a DE filter then and it cleared the water up fast. It will need to be backwashed often though because of the fine filtering. You could start it on recirculate to get the chlorine moving. Once the water is clearer and you can see what you're up against you can start brushing the sides and floor of the pool. I can't say what to do if you have a cartridge filter, your way may be better.

It won't be a 1 day job but you'll be keeping the water in the pool so no issues with the liner. I will say that I have not had to use DE in my sand filter yet so I can't say it will need backwashing in a minute, an hour or how long but you'll need to monitor it.

Back then I used bleach not liquid chlorine and I did go through a lot of 1 gallon jugs (10 - 15) and I think it took a week to get the water clear being filtered with the DE filter. It's early in the year and not close to opening, at least in NJ, so plenty of time to get it ready for the new season.

 

[hvstle]

Welcome back hvstle.

(And i moved you to above ground pools)

Liners need 12 to 18 inches of water to hold them in place. Some have successfully got theirs to lay back nice and tight, but most fail and need a new liner.

You can drain down to 18 inches, or a little further if you watch the liner for any signs of pulling away. Then add a foot, drain it back out (perhaps even at the same time) and when you refill, you'll only have a little battle left.

With only a little original water left, and cool weather, it'll be a easier SLAM Process

Thanks, Newdude!

So assuming I drain it out to about 18inches, and then shop vac all of the leaves and gunk out of the bottom, I should be good? When I start filling the water back up, do you suggest I start slamming, or wait for the pool to be full again and the filter running?

As a AG pool owner who had a winter cover split during the winter many years ago I want you to think about not doing this if your pool doesn't have a bunch of debris sitting on the floor.

If it's just green and yucky,, chlorine will clear it up. Yes you need a lot but it will go from dark green to light green quickly. I don't know what kind of filter you have but if it's a sand filter get some diatomaceous earth (DE) to get it to filter finer. I had a DE filter then and it cleared the water up fast. It will need to be backwashed often though because of the fine filtering. You could start it on recirculate to get the chlorine moving. Once the water is clearer and you can see what you're up against you can start brushing the sides and floor of the pool. I can't say what to do if you have a cartridge filter, your way may be better.

It won't be a 1 day job but you'll be keeping the water in the pool so no issues with the liner. I will say that I have not had to use DE in my sand filter yet so I can't say it will need backwashing in a minute, an hour or how long but you'll need to monitor it.

Back then I used bleach not liquid chlorine and I did go through a lot of 1 gallon jugs (10 - 15) and I think it took a week to get the water clear being filtered with the DE filter. It's early in the year and not close to opening, at least in NJ, so plenty of time to get it ready for the new season.

My pool has a TON of debris sitting on the floor. I have two neighbors around me with big trees, and all of their leaves seem to end up in my pool. LOL. It's like a magnet for their trees, and the wind tunnel seems to guide them into my pool like a dang bullseye. (I might be dramatic )

Last year when we left it and tried to slam we spent so much money on shock and other chemicals that I just can't do that again. It was such a pita. I had to bring almost two car loads like this to the dump last year lol...

 

[Newdude]

So assuming I drain it out to about 18inches, and then shop vac all of the leaves and gunk out of the bottom, I should be good?

Yup. Your choice if you dump most of it for less battle or just fight the water you have with lots of bleach. With cheap water and a good path to drain it, I always side with dumping/exchanging to lessen the battle. But nobody is wrong and expensive water or poor draining options would certainly change my perspective.

The floor gunk needs to be vac'd out either way. It'll be easier to see once the water is low and needs to go ASAP. It'll chew through gobs of chlorine as long as it's in there.

When I start filling the water back up, do you suggest I start slamming, or wait for the pool to be full again and the filter running?

I'd slam while filling to get a jump start on what's left. Slam according to the lower gallons at the time so you don't spike the FC 3X more than you should. It seems so common sense-y. But.

Adjust your doses for the increasing gallons as you go.

 

[Bperry]

Thanks, Newdude!

So assuming I drain it out to about 18inches, and then shop vac all of the leaves and gunk out of the bottom, I should be good? When I start filling the water back up, do you suggest I start slamming, or wait for the pool to be full again and the filter running?


My pool has a TON of debris sitting on the floor. I have two neighbors around me with big trees, and all of their leaves seem to end up in my pool. LOL. It's like a magnet for their trees, and the wind tunnel seems to guide them into my pool like a dang bullseye. (I might be dramatic )

Last year when we left it and tried to slam we spent so much money on shock and other chemicals that I just can't do that again. It was such a pita. I had to bring almost two car loads like this to the dump last year lol...
View attachment 630066

Try scooping out the leaves with a net. a shopvac will take water along with the leaves.

 

[Newdude]

a shopvac will take water along with the leaves.

While that's actually a good thing while draining, it's a PITA to dump the shop vac every 2 mins.

So +1 with the net for the big stuff. Once you can see the bottom a little better, you can gently brush the sludge to a particular area then give it a little while to settle. A few attempts at it will leave you with a much smaller area to vac out.

 

[hvstle]

Awesome. I feel MUCH more confident about this project. Cheers all!!

 

[Bperry]

While that's actually a good thing while draining, it's a PITA to dump the shop vac every 2 mins.

So +1 with the net for the big stuff. Once you can see the bottom a little better, you can gently brush the sludge to a particular area then give it a little while to settle. A few attempts at it will leave you with a much smaller area to vac out.

That’s a reasonable plan. I was assuming you were draining it down to the bare minimum allowed and don’t want any extra water being removed. But a little sludge at the end probably isn’t gonna make much of a difference in water level.

 

[Mdragger88]

*note before you proceed

If your pool is buried at all you mustn’t lower the water level below the surrounding ground level as you risk a cave in situation.

My suggestion on top of what @Newdude has already covered is to get the pool de winterized and running before you start draining. Run all the tests so you have some baseline numbers especially cya. This ensures you know you have functional equipment upon refill and can get going with the slam post haste & you can get an idea of what your cya will be after the exchange.
While dealing with the muck while simultaneously draining the pool you’ll want there to be some fc in there. Not necessarily slam level but at least target level.
The draining is fast depending upon your pump - the refill takes a bit longer. I suggest draining from the bottom whilst refilling from the top.
It took me 2+ days with 2 hoses to fill my 25k gallon pool (only fill during daylight hours to avoid the liner shrinking and the weight pulling on the liner & always set a timer to check it)
Get a leaf net (the deep ones with a lip are best for scooping) you can go at it broom & dustpan style with the brush too if you have 2 poles.

If the water gets low enough and you have some waders getting in there may make scooping the muck out easier. (For safety be sure someone is home or can check on you if you wear waders in the pool)
Its gonna be arm day every day until your scooping is done so come prepared.

There’s no way to avoid the
SLAM Process but a partial drain will help you remove some of the bulk of organic material which should in turn= less liquid chlorine needed overall.

P.S.
if you’re pump is ever inoperable again you can still feed your pool the chlorine it needs daily to keep your pool clear and avoid algae by simply pouring liquid chlorine in slowly (away from the liner) and brushing it around.
The filter only physically removes particulates, while important, it doesn’t provide sanitation which is what keeps algae from proliferating. Keep the fc up, give it a little manual circulation and you’ll be good for a bit until things are going again

Also, the only dumb question is the one you don’t ask- thats what we’re here for! Ask away anytime along your pool journey
Keep us posted on the progress!
Did we mention we love pictures?

 

[Newdude]

If your pool is buried at all you mustn’t lower the water level below the surrounding ground level as you risk a cave in situation.

GREAT catch. I mean. Everything above is spot on as always, but this in particular. It's hard to tell from the posted pics in their media if any of the pool is buried.

 

[hvstle]

The pool is not buried! I appreciate the extra advice. I do have waders, and will be going in to get up close and personal with it. I have many nets, a couple manual vacuums, and a shop vac. We'll be gettin it nice and clean.

If your pool is buried at all you mustn’t lower the water level below the surrounding ground level as you risk a cave in situation.

The draining is fast depending upon your pump - the refill takes a bit longer. I suggest draining from the bottom whilst refilling from the top.
It took me 2+ days with 2 hoses to fill my 25k gallon pool (only fill during daylight hours to avoid the liner shrinking and the weight pulling on the liner & always set a timer to check it)

If the water gets low enough and you have some waders getting in there may make scooping the muck out easier. (For safety be sure someone is home or can check on you if you wear waders in the pool)
Its gonna be arm day every day until your scooping is done so come prepared.


P.S.
if you’re pump is ever inoperable again you can still feed your pool the chlorine it needs daily to keep your pool clear and avoid algae by simply pouring liquid chlorine in slowly (away from the liner) and brushing it around.
The filter only physically removes particulates, while important, it doesn’t provide sanitation which is what keeps algae from proliferating. Keep the fc up, give it a little manual circulation and you’ll be good for a bit until things are going again

Also, the only dumb question is the one you don’t ask- thats what we’re here for! Ask away anytime along your pool journey
Keep us posted on the progress!
Did we mention we love pictures?

Why would the liner shrink at night? I thought the warm weather is what made the liner shrink? I haven't researched this a lot, but I found somewhere that it said to avoid doing this on really hot days as the heat will shrink the liner.

Also, what is the fear/reasoning on having someone home to check on my if I wear waders into the pool? I'm a fit, healthy dude... Where is the worry for getting in 2 ft deep water? Genuinely curious, because chances are there won't be anyone home while I do this.

The info about pouring in while the pump is inoperable is really good advice. I should have done this from the beginning.

Before I start draining I will turn everything on and make sure we're operable before I start this process. Also a really good note.

Thanks again, all!

 

[Newdude]

Why would the liner shrink at night?

Like a frightened turtle.

The sun warms it up and helps keep it pliable. Both of my pools were filled with 55 degree water, so the bottoms were cold as the water rose, but the top was able to stretch if needed because of the sun.

Also, what is the fear/reasoning on having someone home to check on my if I wear waders into the pool?

Just good practice. It's less of an issue in 2ft of pool water versus being in a creek, but still always a concern. Be careful and use good judgement at the time, easier said than done when youre exhausted from all the effort already put in.

 

[Mdragger88]

The pool is not buried! I appreciate the extra advice. I do have waders, and will be going in to get up close and personal with it. I have many nets, a couple manual vacuums, and a shop vac. We'll be gettin it nice and clean.


Why would the liner shrink at night? I thought the warm weather is what made the liner shrink? I haven't researched this a lot, but I found somewhere that it said to avoid doing this on really hot days as the heat will shrink the liner.

Also, what is the fear/reasoning on having someone home to check on my if I wear waders into the pool? I'm a fit, healthy dude... Where is the worry for getting in 2 ft deep water? Genuinely curious, because chances are there won't be anyone home while I do this.

The info about pouring in while the pump is inoperable is really good advice. I should have done this from the beginning.

Before I start draining I will turn everything on and make sure we're operable before I start this process. Also a really good note.

Thanks again, all!

Cold shrinks vinyl (u don’t want this)
heat/sun help stretch vinyl (what u want)
The older the liner the less stretchy it is and the more risk of rip/tear.

I’m captain safety around my camp and wader safety is always worth mentioning. Not that u don’t have any common sense with shallow water. But waders filled with water will drown you if you can’t get them off. They are extremely heavy.
Hypothermia is also a real concern if one becomes “stuck” for too long.
I just don’t want someone else reading this thinking its a good idea to jump in their fullish pool all willy nilly with waders on.

 

[phonedave]

I have drained a pool full of sludge in the past. What worked for me is to keep the sump pump off the bottom until the level gets to about 3' deep. Then placed a garbage can on a stand, put the pump in the can, and put a window screen over the top of the can loosely held in place with a bungee cord. I then scooped and dumped 5 gallon buckets of water into the garbage pail. The screen caught the debris, and was easy to eventually clean off when necessary, and it stops the gunk from clogging the sump pump. It also stops it from being discharged into the the street.

 

[hvstle]

I have drained a pool full of sludge in the past. What worked for me is to keep the sump pump off the bottom until the level gets to about 3' deep. Then placed a garbage can on a stand, put the pump in the can, and put a window screen over the top of the can loosely held in place with a bungee cord. I then scooped and dumped 5 gallon buckets of water into the garbage pail. The screen caught the debris, and was easy to eventually clean off when necessary, and it stops the gunk from clogging the sump pump. It also stops it from being discharged into the the street.

This is a good idea... Thanks!