Coping and Concrete issues

[schmutzler03]

Hi, the corners of our pool have been sagging slightly more since we bought the house 2.5 years ago. The straight portions are fine, and it's obvious that someone did something to try to correct the corners. I've been told that when we're ready, we will need the concrete cut back 12" to remove all the coping/liner and install new. One quote I got to do all that was for about 25k. Is that in the ballpark you'd expect? Any other solutions you know of? We're in Maryville,TN.

Also, after pressure washing the concrete, a good bit of the top layer came off with it. At first I thought it was just paint, but it took more than just paint off. Is there any real resurfacing this, or is it a lost cause? Anyone heard of a residential rubber surface you can apply on top of concrete like in some commercial spaces? In one area by the diving board the rebar is peeking through.

We're really kind of paralyzed because the deck needs to be addressed- no body wants to walk on crumbling concrete this summer- but we don't want to waste money by doing any fixing to the deck only to tear it up to replace coping

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[ajw22]

You can resurface the concrete deck.

How To Resurface Worn Concrete

Learn how to properly resurface concrete for a brand-new, durable finish with this simple step-by-step guide.

www.thisoldhouse.com

When you fix the pool you should plan on replacing the entire deck.

I would just cry once and do it all now.

 

[schmutzler03]

Thanks, @ajw22 . I am familiar with resurfacing, but also hesitant to bother as you implied since this other work needs to be done. Anyone recognize what was done to the corners? It's weird to me that the aluminum coping is only on the straight edges and this plastic (?) type stuff is on the corners.
I feel the price we got from the first contractor for cutting out concrete and replacing the coping/liner was kind of excessive, but I may not be thinking some part of it through. I'd expect to pay that much if it included replacing the entire deck as well.

 

[Newdude]

It's weird to me that the aluminum coping is only on the straight edges and this plastic (?) type stuff is on the corners

Most systems of that era had matching corner pieces, but there's no telling if repairs were needed and the parts weren't available, or they just MacGyvered it from the get go.

We're really kind of paralyzed because the deck needs to be addressed- no body wants to walk on crumbling concrete this summer-

Indoor/outdoor carpet would buy you as much time as you needed. It's not the fanciest, but it's cheap and it works.

 

[schmutzler03]

Indoor/outdoor carpet would buy you as much time as you needed. It's not the fanciest, but it's cheap and it works.

Hadn't thought about that option

Has anyone seen separate corners like this be able to be replaced since they are the only trouble areas and the liner is still good?

 

[bigpoppapoolman]

Thanks, @ajw22 . I am familiar with resurfacing, but also hesitant to bother as you implied since this other work needs to be done. Anyone recognize what was done to the corners? It's weird to me that the aluminum coping is only on the straight edges and this plastic (?) type stuff is on the corners.
I feel the price we got from the first contractor for cutting out concrete and replacing the coping/liner was kind of excessive, but I may not be thinking some part of it through. I'd expect to pay that much if it included replacing the entire deck as well.

Freeze and thaw in East Tn will pop up the topping repair. I’d tear out the deck … pressure test all pool plumbing and leave pressure on it during all of the work.. add a gray walk in step, new liner, gray coping, new deck (very important to use a proven concrete company that has great reviews and proof of good looking work) and a new liner. It will look like a new pool. Replace the diving board stand/base with a gray fiberglass/acrylic one. You can eliminate the old light and add 3 nicheless LED lights and deck jets also. That pool with the updates would probably cost $60k if built new from scratch by a good builder. It increases the property value for most prospective future buyers and in the meantime you enjoy the use and and a great looking pool.

 

[ajw22]

It increases the property value for most prospective future buyers and in the meantime you enjoy the use and and a great looking pool.

In the Northeast pools come for free. They add no value to the house at sale and reduce the pool of buyers. It may help close a sale if you have a buyer who wants a pool.

 

[schmutzler03]

So all things considered, I am in the process of getting a minimum of 3 bids, and we are leaning towards replacing all of the concrete decking around the pool instead of trying to salvage it. Almost everyone so far has said the coping needs to be replaced, and the one repair option we were told of for the corners is really just a temporary fix. We'd rather pay to not have to do it again for a long time .
If they are going to cut back a foot of concrete anyways, now seems like the time to replace the rest once we are through this swim season.

Trying to weigh the options and durability of steel coping vrs bullnose concrete. Any strong opinions?

 

[schmutzler03]

In the Northeast pools come for free. They add no value to the house at sale and reduce the pool of buyers. It may help close a sale if you have a buyer who wants a pool.

Yeah, here is the Southeast it's often a desirable thing to have a pool, but only to a certain niche of people. Some see pool and run. We have loved it, except for very painful moments like this!

 

[bigpoppapoolman]

So all things considered, I am in the process of getting a minimum of 3 bids, and we are leaning towards replacing all of the concrete decking around the pool instead of trying to salvage it. Almost everyone so far has said the coping needs to be replaced, and the one repair option we were told of for the corners is really just a temporary fix. We'd rather pay to not have to do it again for a long time .
If they are going to cut back a foot of concrete anyways, now seems like the time to replace the rest once we are through this swim season.

Trying to weigh the options and durability of steel coping vrs bullnose concrete. Any strong opinions?

It is less maintenance with the common aluminum coping (you will not need to caulk and grout joints) .. my light gray aluminum coping came with the 4 yr old pool. Vinyl pools are almost always built with a 2ft over dig to allow assembly of the wall, wall braces, its structural footing and allow for the plumbing installation. It can’t be compacted anywhere near 95% compaction (load bearing compaction). Part of the pool concrete deck rides on the lip of the pool wall just behind the aluminum coping. Rarely do they add post holes (vertical concrete post poured every 4ft inside 4” thin wall SDR pipe) tied to the concrete footing that extends out 2ft away from the bottom of the pool wall and goes around the perimeter to act as a footing for the pool wall in. It’s very difficult to add the concrete posts during a renovation because you can’t see the plumbing at the base of the 42” high wall because of the loose dirt back fill and they will not be part of the concrete pour for the footing. When they tear out the existing concrete deck, you will see that the part that is over the over dig is not touching the settled dirt. Even if you could add the post/columns/piers.. the way the top perimeter footing gets poured at the top to support new brick or stone coping… it is not a good practice. It’s all on non compacted fill that can not be properly compacted… if they try to properly compact it to be supporting concrete,stone or brick coping… they risk warping the pool wall inward. Just put new gray or tan aluminum pool coping on and a lightly washed deck with the trap rock, limestone, pea gravel mix that gives you the look that you want and most importantly pick a pool builder that has a long list and gallery of referrals that are good and 15 yrs or more experience. If you have a bunch of friends recommending work done years ago and recently .. listen to that. While you are at it add 3 deck jets. I hope this helps. I’ll add a picture of my pool taken just now.

 

[schmutzler03]

Part of the pool concrete deck rides on the lip of the pool wall just behind the aluminum coping

Thanks for the insight on how vinyl pools are typically built. Ours seems to be from the '80s so not sure if they did them the same back then or what.

As for not doing the concrete bullnose, I'm unclear as to how the structural build of the pool would affect adding the bullnose. You say when the concrete ends right behind the coping it will rest on the pool wall for support. It sounded like you were implying the pool would not support bullnose concrete due to lack of proper compacting around the pool. But in my mind it also appears that if the concrete extends over the pool edge and bullnoses it will still rest on the pool wall for support. Maybe I misunderstood, your intention/explanation.

Nice pool by the way!

 

[bigpoppapoolman]

Thanks for the insight on how vinyl pools are typically built. Ours seems to be from the '80s so not sure if they did them the same back then or what.

As for not doing the concrete bullnose, I'm unclear as to how the structural build of the pool would affect adding the bullnose. You say when the concrete ends right behind the coping it will rest on the pool wall for support. It sounded like you were implying the pool would not support bullnose concrete due to lack of proper compacting around the pool. But in my mind it also appears that if the concrete extends over the pool edge and bullnoses it will still rest on the pool wall for support. Maybe I misunderstood, your intention/explanation.

Nice pool by the way!

The pool wall even in the 80s is almost for sure, a 12 ga galvanized steel wall that is 4” wide at the top. The aluminum coping is tek screwed to the wall and cantilevers out into the pool a tad. The concrete deck is poured usually being 4’-8’ wide so that monolithic pour spans over the loose fill dirt and rests on top of the pool wall. If you add stone or brick coping, there will be an expansion joint at the back of the coping going the depth of the concrete deck (4”). There is no good way to properly support the stone or brick over the loose fill dirt without many hours of skilled labor that will carefully avoid the pool piping. It would require about 40 piers/post holes and the footing for the stone or brick coping that will still be structurally suspect. I added a drawing showing the difference in the two types of coping and deck construction methods (aluminum vs brick or stone). That’s all I got.

 

[schmutzler03]

Ok now I see we were thinking of two different things, @bigpoppapoolman . My terminology may be wrong.
I was assuming that when they would tear the entire deck out it would be repoured as one reinforced piece of concrete going from front to back - from bullnose to about 4 feet from pool edge (like the photos I'm including) with expansion joints running perpendicular to the pool edge.
What you say makes total sense if they would pour a new deck then add a separate bullnose section for the 12-24" around the pool edge.

In the photos I'm including, if it were done this way, do you forsee issues?

 

[bigpoppapoolman]

You

Ok now I see we were thinking of two different things, @bigpoppapoolman . My terminology may be wrong.
I was assuming that when they would tear the entire deck out it would be repoured as one reinforced piece of concrete going from front to back - from bullnose to about 4 feet from pool edge (like the photos I'm including) with expansion joints running perpendicular to the pool edge.
What you say makes total sense if they would pour a new deck then add a separate bullnose section for the 12-24" around the pool edge.

In the photos I'm including, if it were done this way, do you forsee issues?

I don’t see any issues doing a cantilever deck like that using special forms that allow for it …as long as the concrete deck contractor is a very good one with experience doing that on pools. You should get a list of good references that you can go see or call or somehow verify with the pool owners … and over 10 yrs or so experience doing this. If they don’t get it set up to pour correctly or don’t do a good job finishing the concrete especially the face edge at the waterline … you’ll be stuck with it for a while. It’s not easy to improve bad workmanship on this sort of deck.