I am planning on a heat pump. I cannot place it close enough to the panel or anywhere else to use a 6 foot liquid tight whip (9 feet from panel). Is my only option to run pvc or rigid conduit underground close to the heater? If yes, do I transition to liquid right through a junction box? (Underground pvc -> junction box on some type of post -> liquid tight -> heat pump). Thx
Connection from pool sub panel to heat pump
- Thread starter gctnj
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 64,690
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
The Heat Pump needs a maintenance disconnect at the unit. Wire through electircal PVC to teh disconnect and then liquid tite to the HP.
You have outdoor AC units? Look at how they are wired.
You have outdoor AC units? Look at how they are wired.
Although I could add a disconnect for the heat pump, I believe the outside sub panel, 9 feet from the heater, with a separate 50 amp circuit breaker can function as the disconnect. I would really like to go direct from the sub panel to the heat pump with liquid tight, but it’s 9 foot and probably would fail inspection. So using buried PVC to the heat pump seems like my only solution. Is there any way to transition from the buried PVC conduit to liquid tight without having to mount a junction box. PVC exiting the ground direct to liquid tight for example. Or the PVC exiting through a concrete pad direct to liquid tight. I’ll mount a junction box or a separate disconnect if I have to, but looking at all options.
356.10 Uses Permitted. LFNC shall be permitted to be used in exposed or concealed locations for the following purposes:
(5)
Type LFNC-B shall be permitted to be installed in lengths longer than 1.8 m (6 ft) where secured in accordance with 356.30.
(5)
Type LFNC-B shall be permitted to be installed in lengths longer than 1.8 m (6 ft) where secured in accordance with 356.30.
Section 356.10(5) was revised to permit Type LFNC-A (Thomas & Betts) and Type LFNC-C (PMA) to be used in lengths longer than 6 feet. Earlier editions of the NEC, Section 356.10(5) only allowed Type LFNC-B (Carflex) to be used in lengths longer than 6 feet.
Additional Revisions or Expanded Uses for Types LFNC-A and LFNC-C:
(1) 356.30 Securing and Supporting, was revised to include the Types LFNC-A and LFNC-C for the supporting requirements when lengths over 6 feet are used.
(2) 680.27(A)(2) Wiring Methods, was revised to include all types of LFNC as an approved wiring method for specialized pool equipment.
Additional Revisions or Expanded Uses for Types LFNC-A and LFNC-C:
(1) 356.30 Securing and Supporting, was revised to include the Types LFNC-A and LFNC-C for the supporting requirements when lengths over 6 feet are used.
(2) 680.27(A)(2) Wiring Methods, was revised to include all types of LFNC as an approved wiring method for specialized pool equipment.
NEC 356.30.
Fastening and support.
Type LFNC liquid-tight flexible nonmetallic conduit shall be securely fastened and secured in accordance with one of the following:
(1) When installed in runs exceeding 1.8 m (6 feet), conduit must be securely fastened at intervals not exceeding 900 mm (3 feet) and at a distance not greater than 300 mm (12 inches) on each side of each outlet box, junction box, cabinet or fixture.
Where used, cable ties must be listed as suitable for the fastening and securing application.
(2) Fastening and securing of conduit should not be required if it is laid, installed in lengths not exceeding 900 mm (3 ft) at terminals where flexibility is needed, or when installed in lengths not exceeding 1.8 m (6 feet) from a connection to the terminal of a luminaire to branch conductors to luminaires as permitted in 410.117(C).
(3) Horizontal runs of liquid-tight flexible nonmetallic conduit (LFNC), supported in openings through structural members, shall be permitted at intervals not exceeding 900 mm (3 feet) and fixedly fastened at a distance of less than 300 mm (12 inches) from termination points.
(4) Fixing or fastening of an LFNC shall not be required where it is installed in runs not exceeding 1.8 m (6 ft) from the last point where the raceway is fixed and secured for connections that are within a ceiling accessible to luminaires or other equipment.
For purposes of 356.30, accessories for listed flexible, liquid-tight nonmetallic conduits shall be permitted as a means of support.
Fastening and support.
Type LFNC liquid-tight flexible nonmetallic conduit shall be securely fastened and secured in accordance with one of the following:
(1) When installed in runs exceeding 1.8 m (6 feet), conduit must be securely fastened at intervals not exceeding 900 mm (3 feet) and at a distance not greater than 300 mm (12 inches) on each side of each outlet box, junction box, cabinet or fixture.
Where used, cable ties must be listed as suitable for the fastening and securing application.
(2) Fastening and securing of conduit should not be required if it is laid, installed in lengths not exceeding 900 mm (3 ft) at terminals where flexibility is needed, or when installed in lengths not exceeding 1.8 m (6 feet) from a connection to the terminal of a luminaire to branch conductors to luminaires as permitted in 410.117(C).
(3) Horizontal runs of liquid-tight flexible nonmetallic conduit (LFNC), supported in openings through structural members, shall be permitted at intervals not exceeding 900 mm (3 feet) and fixedly fastened at a distance of less than 300 mm (12 inches) from termination points.
(4) Fixing or fastening of an LFNC shall not be required where it is installed in runs not exceeding 1.8 m (6 ft) from the last point where the raceway is fixed and secured for connections that are within a ceiling accessible to luminaires or other equipment.
For purposes of 356.30, accessories for listed flexible, liquid-tight nonmetallic conduits shall be permitted as a means of support.
Liquidtight Flexible Nonmetallic Conduit: Type LFNC
356.30 Securing and Supporting. Type LFNC shall be securely fastened and supported in accordance with one of the following: (1) Where installed in lengths exceeding 1.8 m (6 ft), the conduit shall be securely fastened at intervals not exceeding 900 mm (3 ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) on each side of every outlet box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting. Where used, cable ties shall be listed as suitable for the application and for securing and supporting.
356.30 Securing and Supporting. Type LFNC shall be securely fastened and supported in accordance with one of the following: (1) Where installed in lengths exceeding 1.8 m (6 ft), the conduit shall be securely fastened at intervals not exceeding 900 mm (3 ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) on each side of every outlet box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting. Where used, cable ties shall be listed as suitable for the application and for securing and supporting.
I think that that is acceptable.
As long as it is secured, it should be fine.
Thanks for responses. I’ve read the regulations and since I have a gap greater than 6 feet with no permanent structure to secure to meet the 3 foot guideline, I didn’t think this would apply (unless I’m misinterpreting the regulation). That’s why I think I may need to run pvc down the foundation from the sub panel, then underground to the heat pump, then transition to LNFC for the connection. I’m trying to avoid a 4x4 post to mount a junction box for the LNFC transition from pvc because space is tight. But I will if that’s what regulations require, which seems likely given everything I have read
Are you doing the work or is an electrician doing the work?
Ask the inspector what is required.
Can you show the location of everything?
Ask the inspector what is required.
Can you show the location of everything?
Bill1974
Well-known member
- Jun 18, 2014
- 651
- Pool Size
- 32000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
You will have to check if your breaker is rated as a motor disconnect. Most likely it is.
ARTICLE 356
Liquidtight Flexible Nonmetallic Conduit
(LFNC)
Part I. General
356.1
Can LFNC be buried?
356.6 Listing Requirements. LFNC and associated fittings shall be listed.
Part II. Installation
356.10 Uses Permitted. LENC shall be permitted to be used in exposed or concealed locations for the following purposes:
(1) Where flexibility is required for installation, operation, or maintenance.
2) Where protection of the contained conductors is required from vapors, machine oils, liquids, or solids.
3) For outdoor locations where listed and marked as suitable for the purpose.
4) For direct burial where listed and marked for the purpose.
5) Installed in lengths longer than 1.8 m (6 ft) where secured in accordance with 356.30
LFNC-B as a listed manufactured prewired assembly, metric designator 16 through 27 (trade size through 1) conduit.
For encasement in concrete where listed for direct burial and installed in compliance with 356.42.
70-243
Liquidtight Flexible Nonmetallic Conduit
(LFNC)
Part I. General
356.1
Can LFNC be buried?
356.6 Listing Requirements. LFNC and associated fittings shall be listed.
Part II. Installation
356.10 Uses Permitted. LENC shall be permitted to be used in exposed or concealed locations for the following purposes:
(1) Where flexibility is required for installation, operation, or maintenance.
2) Where protection of the contained conductors is required from vapors, machine oils, liquids, or solids.
3) For outdoor locations where listed and marked as suitable for the purpose.
4) For direct burial where listed and marked for the purpose.
5) Installed in lengths longer than 1.8 m (6 ft) where secured in accordance with 356.30
LFNC-B as a listed manufactured prewired assembly, metric designator 16 through 27 (trade size through 1) conduit.
For encasement in concrete where listed for direct burial and installed in compliance with 356.42.
70-243
Bill1974
Well-known member
- Jun 18, 2014
- 651
- Pool Size
- 32000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
FYI the NFPA 70 - National Electrical Code is freely accessible. You do need to create an account, but it's free.
In my opinion, you can just run LFNC from the subpanel into the ground, across to the heat pump and up and into the heat pump in one piece.
If it is buried, then I would consider that "secured" where it is in the ground.
If there is more than 3 feet of exposed conduit, then just secure it as needed.
There is no formal definition of what "Secure" is.
As long as the conduit is fastened or secured to something, it should be fine.
Check with your local code inspector to be sure.
If it is buried, then I would consider that "secured" where it is in the ground.
If there is more than 3 feet of exposed conduit, then just secure it as needed.
There is no formal definition of what "Secure" is.
As long as the conduit is fastened or secured to something, it should be fine.
Check with your local code inspector to be sure.
Last edited:
I am doing the work myself. I always check with the town once I know what is permitted under code. I’m going to ask tomorrow about just using buried LNFC. Thx for info.
Make sure that the conduit is rated for outdoor and direct burial.
UL Non-Metallic Type LFNC-B 6000 Series
Liquidtight Flexible Non-Metallic conduit is a versatile product that has a variety of applications for indoor and outdoor locations.
Non-metallic conduit is used in fixture whips, data centers, electric signs and outdoor lighting, HVAC, pool and spas and locations with exposure to sunlight and weather conditions and more.
Our non-metallic conduit has a rigid PVC core for strength and is rated for concrete embedment.
Our non-metallic conduit Type LFNC-B is available in long length reels in sizes 1/2” to 1”.
Non-metallic conduit is used with non-metallic liquidtight connectors, available through Allied Fittings.
Features:
LIQUID-TUFF™ Integral Liquidtight Flexible Nonmetallic Conduit UL
Rugged Nonmetallic PVC
Interior integral reinforced member within conduit wall
Rigid PVC spiral core for strength
Outdoor applications including direct burial
Rated for concrete embedment
UL Non-Metallic Type LFNC-B 6000 Series
Liquidtight Flexible Non-Metallic conduit is a versatile product that has a variety of applications for indoor and outdoor locations.
Non-metallic conduit is used in fixture whips, data centers, electric signs and outdoor lighting, HVAC, pool and spas and locations with exposure to sunlight and weather conditions and more.
Our non-metallic conduit has a rigid PVC core for strength and is rated for concrete embedment.
Our non-metallic conduit Type LFNC-B is available in long length reels in sizes 1/2” to 1”.
Non-metallic conduit is used with non-metallic liquidtight connectors, available through Allied Fittings.
Features:
LIQUID-TUFF™ Integral Liquidtight Flexible Nonmetallic Conduit UL
Rugged Nonmetallic PVC
Interior integral reinforced member within conduit wall
Rigid PVC spiral core for strength
Outdoor applications including direct burial
Rated for concrete embedment
UL Non-Metallic Type LFNC-B 6000 Series
Liquidtight Flexible Non-Metallic conduit is a versatile product that has a variety of applications for indoor and outdoor locations. Non-metallic conduit is used in fixture whips, data centers, electric signs and outdoor lighting, HVAC, pool and spas and locations with exposure to sunlight and...
www.atkore.com
Most likely, you will need 3/4" size.
Specification
3/4" Trade UL Type LFNC-B Liquid Tight Flexible Non-Metallic Conduit PVC Jacket
Applications:
• 3/8″ through 2″ rated for direct burial and poured concrete
• Hazardous locations where Flexible Connections are required per NEC 501.10(B)(2)(4), 502.10(A)(2)(3), 502.10(B)(1)(1), 502.10(B)(2), 503.10(A)(3)(3), 503.10(B), 504.20
• Industrial and commercial applications
• Indoor or outdoor locations
• Suitable for pool and spa use
• Air conditioning and HVAC units
Also Known As:
Type UL, Type LFNC-B, Liquid Tight Conduit, Flexible Conduit, Non-Metallic Jacket, PVC Jacket, 6003-30-00 AFC, 6003-46-00 AFC.
Description:
• UL Listed
• Rugged Non-Metallic PVC
• Interior integral reinforced member within conduit wall
• Integral Type B construction per NEC 356.2(2)
• Outdoor applications including direct burial
• Rigid PVC spiral core for strength
• Rated for concrete embedment
• Sunlight and oil resistant
• Non-conductive raceway
Specification:
• Trade Size: 3/4" inch
• Coil Length: 100ft
• Reel Length: 700ft
• Weight: 0.1890 lbs/ft
• Internal Diameter Min: 0.820 inch
• Internal Diameter Max: 0.840 inch
• External Diameter Min: 1.030 inch
• External Diameter Max: 1.050 inch
• Bend Radius: 4.25 inch
• Part Number: 6003-30-00
• Part Number: 6003-46-00
nassaunationalcable.com
Specification
3/4" Trade UL Type LFNC-B Liquid Tight Flexible Non-Metallic Conduit PVC Jacket
Applications:
• 3/8″ through 2″ rated for direct burial and poured concrete
• Hazardous locations where Flexible Connections are required per NEC 501.10(B)(2)(4), 502.10(A)(2)(3), 502.10(B)(1)(1), 502.10(B)(2), 503.10(A)(3)(3), 503.10(B), 504.20
• Industrial and commercial applications
• Indoor or outdoor locations
• Suitable for pool and spa use
• Air conditioning and HVAC units
Also Known As:
Type UL, Type LFNC-B, Liquid Tight Conduit, Flexible Conduit, Non-Metallic Jacket, PVC Jacket, 6003-30-00 AFC, 6003-46-00 AFC.
Description:
• UL Listed
• Rugged Non-Metallic PVC
• Interior integral reinforced member within conduit wall
• Integral Type B construction per NEC 356.2(2)
• Outdoor applications including direct burial
• Rigid PVC spiral core for strength
• Rated for concrete embedment
• Sunlight and oil resistant
• Non-conductive raceway
Specification:
• Trade Size: 3/4" inch
• Coil Length: 100ft
• Reel Length: 700ft
• Weight: 0.1890 lbs/ft
• Internal Diameter Min: 0.820 inch
• Internal Diameter Max: 0.840 inch
• External Diameter Min: 1.030 inch
• External Diameter Max: 1.050 inch
• Bend Radius: 4.25 inch
• Part Number: 6003-30-00
• Part Number: 6003-46-00
3/4
Also Known As: Type UL, Type LFNC-B, Liquid Tight Conduit, Flexible Conduit, Non-Metallic Jacket, PVC Jacket, 6003-30-00 AFC, 6003-46-00 AFC. Description: • UL Listed • Rugged Non-Metallic PVC • Interior integral reinforced member within conduit wall • Integral Type B construction per NEC®...
nassaunationalcable.com
Last edited:
Go 24" into the ground.
The bend radius is 4.25".
Above ground, conduit must be securely fastened at intervals not exceeding 900 mm (3 feet) and at a distance not greater than 300 mm (12 inches) on each side of each outlet box, junction box, cabinet or fixture.
Size the wire appropriately.
For wet locations, you need THWN wire, or a similar wire with a "W" in the designation.
Buried conduit is generally considered a wet location by the National Electrical Code (NEC).
This is because even if the conduit is initially dry, it is likely to fill with water over time due to soil moisture, ground water, or other factors.
As a result, the interior of the conduit is treated as a wet environment, requiring the use of wet-rated wires and other components.
The bend radius is 4.25".
Above ground, conduit must be securely fastened at intervals not exceeding 900 mm (3 feet) and at a distance not greater than 300 mm (12 inches) on each side of each outlet box, junction box, cabinet or fixture.
Size the wire appropriately.
For wet locations, you need THWN wire, or a similar wire with a "W" in the designation.
Buried conduit is generally considered a wet location by the National Electrical Code (NEC).
This is because even if the conduit is initially dry, it is likely to fill with water over time due to soil moisture, ground water, or other factors.
As a result, the interior of the conduit is treated as a wet environment, requiring the use of wet-rated wires and other components.