Cold front coming = Frozen chemicals

[P00LNerd]

I see the local forecast for this week is for a bunch of 3F - 4F mornings, and at least a few days with highs in the teens. So a reminder to those in the northeast... check your chemical storage!

I know 31% Muriatic won't freeze above -80F, but I think 10% Chlorine is only good down to +19F. Between ground sinking and solar gain, plus a little insulative factor of its own, it's likely my little closed storage box doesn't ever hit 19F most of the winter. But at 3F - 19F for two straight days, I suspect it likley will, so I'll be checking in there this afternoon to remember if there's any liquid chlorine left from last season... and move it indoors if there is.

Moreover, some of the other algicides and miscellaneous might not have well-published freezing points. Those will likely come indoors this week, as well. I hate storing chemicals in the garage long-term, but I don't mind doing it for the few coldest weeks of the winter.

 

[JamesW]

The freezing point of sodium hypochlorite depends on its concentration.

Here are some freezing points for different concentrations of sodium hypochlorite:

• 4%: Freezes at 24°F (-4.4°C)
• 6%: Freezes at 18.5°F (-7.5°C)
• 8%: Freezes at 17°F (-10°C)
• 10%: Freezes at 7°F (-13.9°C)
• 12%: Freezes at -3°F (-19.4°C)
• 14%: Freezes at -14°F (-25.6°C)
• 16.5%: Freezes at -17°F

 

[JamesW]

Sodium Hypochlorite Storage Tanks & Specifications

Sodium Hypochlorite Storage Tanks are manufactured from HDPE, XLPE, and FRP materials at 1.9 specific gravity. Secondary containment is required. Bleach is best stored out of direct sunlight, at temperatures...

www.protank.com

https://www.hillbrothers.com/profiles/sodium-hypochlorite-strengths.pdf

 

[Newdude]

I hate storing chemicals in the garage long-term, but I don't mind doing it for the few coldest weeks of the winter.

Stuff freezes in most peoples garage too.

 

[P00LNerd]

I heat my garages to 55F, due to refrigerators and freezers malfunctioning much below that, so no issue in there.

I’m wondering why Google returned 17F as the freezing point at 10% chlorine, the 7F number makes more sense, otherwise I’d have had more trouble in past years.

This will be the coldest this new pool has seen to date, because last winter was so unusually warm, but it’s no record. We often have a few nights below 0 F each year, and stretches of a week or two below 20 F aren’t all that uncommon, although our January “normals” are probably 10F warmer than that.

Of course, despite posting all this, I got caught up working on some lawn equipment in the shop today, and forgot to move the chemicals. Now the storage box is buried under snow.

 

[JamesW]

HASA 10% SODIUM HYPOCHLORITE SOLUTION.

https://hasa.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Hasa-10.0-Sodium-Hypochlorite-Solution-SDS-r0718.pdf

 

[JamesW]

https://files.dep.state.pa.us/water/bpnpsm/WastewaterOperations_Assistance/WastewaterOperatorResources/CourseMaterials/RespCWProf_7122/Resources/Chlorine/Pamphlet096Edition3April2006FinalWebsite.pdf

 

[JamesW]

Note that not all percentages are equal.

Sodium Hypochlorite might be sold as weight percent or "Trade" percent.

So, a 10% Trade Sodium Hypochlorite might have a freezing point at about 11 to 12 degrees F.

Weight Verses Trade- Understanding Chlorine Concentrations in Different Sources - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

https://powellsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/810-General-Info-Handbook.pdf

 

[P00LNerd]

Well, either way, I'd better make sure there's none left outside. My little storage bin probably stays a few degrees warmer than the overnight low, but not much.

We were showing several mornings of 3 - 4 F in this morning's forecast, but now they've updated that to 6 - 8 F. Of course, the difference between the current conditions shown on my iPhone and what I actually find when I get outside, can be easily 10F apart. So, I'm not putting a whole lot of stock in any 3F change in the forecast, anyway.

Heading now to plow the driveway and shovel the walks when today's snow stops, probably around 9pm. I'll shovel off the chemical cabinet and check for contents while I'm out there. Excepting the muriatic acid, I think I'll just haul any liquids I find out there inside for this week.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Does freezing of liquid chlorine do anything to it? I have mine in a shed outside. We will be in the upper teens for a few hours, so I'm not too worried about it but I'm curious for future winters.

 

[JamesW]

Approximate Freezing Points of Sodium Hypochlorite Solutions

Sodium hypochlorite solutions will freeze at different temperatures depending upon the strength.

Freezing is accompanied by expansion that can damage equipment.

However, the solutions can be thawed without impact on quality.

Under some conditions (especially for solutions above10% sodium hypochlorite), freezing of sodium hypochlorite solutions may result in precipitation of sodium chloride.

If solids do precipitate, care should be taken to prevent interruption of operations or damage to handling equipment.

https://www.hillbrothers.com/profiles/sodium-hypochlorite-strengths.pdf

 

[P00LNerd]

Does freezing of liquid chlorine do anything to it? I have mine in a shed outside. We will be in the upper teens for a few hours, so I'm not too worried about it but I'm curious for future winters.

Main concern would be rupturing the bottle and having a mess, likely not much more.

And I just came in from 90 minutes of clearing snow, and realized I forgot to dig out and check the chemical cupboard. Oops... not going back out now, it's quarter 'till midnight and I have an early meeting.

 

[Newdude]

I heat my garages to 55F,

That's why I said 'for most people'.

I didn't want our average newb thinking their unheated garage would be much better than outside. Mine is a couple degrees warmer with the heat leaving the house through the garage, but only a couple of degrees. Stuff still freezes frequently.

 

[JJ_Tex]

That's why I said 'for most people'.

I didn't want our average newb thinking their unheated garage would be much better than outside. Mine is a couple degrees warmer with the heat leaving the house through the garage, but only a couple of degrees. Stuff still freezes frequently.

I put our palms and other plants who don't play nice with the cold in the garage. Its 18 degrees outside and still 38 in my garage. I'm guessing the garage may get closer to the air temp if you have sustained winter temps, but for areas that get winter for a few days here and there a garage may be suitable.

 

[P00LNerd]

Back before I heated my garage, I found that the temperature was highly dependent on how often we drove the vehicles stored in each garage. The vehicles themselves come back from each trip with a cold body and chassis, which initially makes the garage feel cold when standing near the vehicle, but the heat stored in the engine and exhaust seems to be sufficient to create a net-positive heating effect over the course of the day. I say this, because before I started heating the garages, I'd notice their temperatures dropping off when the cars parked in each were not seeing frequent use.

Full admission, the smallest engine on any vehicle I presently own is 5.7 liters, and I have owned a few above 7.0 liters. In my attached garage right now, I have a 6.4 liter sedan and a 5.7 liter SUV, the sedan having the overwhelming heat advantage of very heavy hot engine on a relatively light cold chassis. This may be one of those, "there's no replacement for displacement" scenarios, to where a typical 2.0 liter 4-cylinder sedan might not have enough stored heat to overcome the chill coming off the body.

I had an early morning appointment, so I still haven't checked the chemical cupboard. But the sun is shining bright now, so despite the temperature being way down, we're getting a heck of a solar gain boost. My chemical cabinet is dark brown, so I'm guessing it's quite warm inside, right at the moment. I'll try to get out there and check on the mess later today.

 

[Homebrewale]

That's why I said 'for most people'.

I didn't want our average newb thinking their unheated garage would be much better than outside. Mine is a couple degrees warmer with the heat leaving the house through the garage, but only a couple of degrees. Stuff still freezes frequently.

At my last house, the greatest heat loss (and heat gain in the summer) in the garage was from the uninsulated metal garage door (this excludes the loss from opening the door). My current house has insulated garage doors so the temperature doesn't get that cold in the garage.

 

[P00LNerd]

Well, I got out to the chemical cabinet before sunset, which thankfully is getting a little later each day now. There was no chlorine, I remember now I dumped the last two gallons on-hand into the pool before closing. There was one gallon of RV antifreeze, one gallon of 31% muriatic, and quarts of polyquat 60, my old 90-day algea fix, and Cover Free.

Our breeze made it feel like a brutal 8°F out there, but it's actually only 17°F dry bulb. The only frozen bottle was the Cover Free, but I brought that, the polyquat 60, and the 90 day algea fix indoors. We know the RV antifreeze and muriatic will be fine outside for the winter.

I suppose I should gift the algae fix to my neighbor, I already gave him all of my other retired chemicals. You guys don't load any algae blocker in spring... right?

 

[P00LNerd]

Oh, and pool photo.

 

[JamesW]

I used to complain about the cold until I saw this video.

What is it Like Growing Up in the World’s Coldest City? −71°C (−95°F) Yakutsk

 

[P00LNerd]

I'm pretty friendly with a guy from Fairbanks AK, and actually one of my son's three piano teachers is temporarily stationed there (military), as well. It's so cold that car batteries and transmission fluid freeze solid, so you need to either park your vehicles in heated buildings, or set alarms to wake up every few hours to run them overnight. Our occasional weeks of below 0°F nights in January are what they'd call "a heat wave".