Can acid bath cause new plaster to go from very light gray to medium charcoal grey??
- Thread starter 5peas
- Start date
Satin Matrix. It is supposed to be Northshore Tahoe, but it was a very pale gray and the pool water appeared light, bright Caribbean blue in hue. And acid bath seems to have darkened it significantly and I'm not understanding how that worked. It is my understanding that an acid bath will only etch plaster to give more exposure to pebbles but can not change color of base plaster to a darker color.
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An acid bath, depending on the strength, usually darkens the appearance somewhat, but it shouldn't be a drastic change. It might lighten-up some when the sun hits it on a continued basis...was this a no-drain acid bath?
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,636
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
My new pebble changed in color significantly during the install process. What is your timeline? And does your finish have an aggregate, or is it plain plaster?
Plaster can take on a dull, grey hue as it ages. As can aggregate finishes. Acid washing would reveal "fresh" plaster underneath.
Calcium build-up would dull and grey plaster, which an acid wash would affect.
On new pebble, the plaster is only a part of the perceived color. If your surface was not properly installed, and too much plaster was left covering the pebbles, then a subsequent acid wash would remove some of the plaster, revealing more of the pebble, and you could see a very significant color shift.
Those are some possible explanations...
Plaster can take on a dull, grey hue as it ages. As can aggregate finishes. Acid washing would reveal "fresh" plaster underneath.
Calcium build-up would dull and grey plaster, which an acid wash would affect.
On new pebble, the plaster is only a part of the perceived color. If your surface was not properly installed, and too much plaster was left covering the pebbles, then a subsequent acid wash would remove some of the plaster, revealing more of the pebble, and you could see a very significant color shift.
Those are some possible explanations...
Yes, it was a no drain bath that lasted 3 days. I'm including up close photos....notice the very light grey base color (even lighter than most of the gray pebbles) in one and the much darker base color that it changed to during the bath. It is obvious that the pebbles are more exposed now after bath, but the base color also very different. It seems to have significantly changed the hue of the water as well (it's been rainy, so haven't really judged in the sun).
I am meeting with the plaster guy this week and I'm going to need to give an answer on whether we are satisfied with the final result, and how well the darkening will last over time is our biggest concern. The fact that it could fade in the sun is important to know, so thank you for that info.
I am meeting with the plaster guy this week and I'm going to need to give an answer on whether we are satisfied with the final result, and how well the darkening will last over time is our biggest concern. The fact that it could fade in the sun is important to know, so thank you for that info.
the left pic looks like how you pool/p-tec should look - the right looks like it may have had a thin layer of X on it and the acid removed it...the sun fades everything over time...
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,636
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
There is a picture floating around here that shows a broken off piece of pebble. I'll never find it, but you can clearly see a thin, dull, grey layer, with the brighter, bluer, original finish just underneath it. Kinda scary, really, if that's what's in store for mine (ours)! I'm not sure it's sun, or only sun, or everything the poor surface is subjected to, chemically.
A no drain bath is an interesting solution. I swore I'd never let my pool get acid washed again (bad experience once), and just live with whatever it does. We'll see.
I suspect a pool's finish will change dramatically during it's life, changing color, feel, mottling, streaking, etc. Every acid bath costs you X amount of longevity. So it comes down to personal preference and budget. Live with whatever it does, and stretch its life, or treat it chemically to adjust its color but replace it more often...
You have to decide for yourself, of course, how picky you're going to be about the color, now and in the future, I'm only suggesting to be careful about how you set your expectations. The higher they are, the more disappointed you might be... Just the nature of pool finishes. They are not like the color of interior cabinets or floors or walls, etc.
A no drain bath is an interesting solution. I swore I'd never let my pool get acid washed again (bad experience once), and just live with whatever it does. We'll see.
I suspect a pool's finish will change dramatically during it's life, changing color, feel, mottling, streaking, etc. Every acid bath costs you X amount of longevity. So it comes down to personal preference and budget. Live with whatever it does, and stretch its life, or treat it chemically to adjust its color but replace it more often...
You have to decide for yourself, of course, how picky you're going to be about the color, now and in the future, I'm only suggesting to be careful about how you set your expectations. The higher they are, the more disappointed you might be... Just the nature of pool finishes. They are not like the color of interior cabinets or floors or walls, etc.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,636
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Wow...that picture really highlights how much chemicals, sun, etc can affect color over time!
My plaster is only 12 days old... I found several pieces of it in both the pump basket and in the grass next to the pool....it is for sure a very light grey all the way through. So, in this case, my darker color is not a result of stripping away a faded top layer. It truly appears darker now after acid bath. (Including photo of the pieces as against a white paper. They are dry, but do not darken significantly when wet).
It's all so interesting...
My plaster is only 12 days old... I found several pieces of it in both the pump basket and in the grass next to the pool....it is for sure a very light grey all the way through. So, in this case, my darker color is not a result of stripping away a faded top layer. It truly appears darker now after acid bath. (Including photo of the pieces as against a white paper. They are dry, but do not darken significantly when wet).
It's all so interesting...
Dirk that picture of the chunk out is from Joyfulnoise (Matt) on here. His pool was built with TFP help and has been TFP all of it's life. The color change is just time and sun.
Kim
Kim
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,636
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
My pool changes color all day long, and throughout the seasons. The sky/weather has a significant affect as well. Mine is never going to be a consistent color. I happen to like almost all of its mood swings, and embrace them.
I can't give you much other insight. Our plaster expert hasn't weighed in yet. Maybe he'll spot this thread. In the meantime, how's it looking to you now? Do you like it?
Kim, who can we call in to answer the OP's questions and concerns?
I can't give you much other insight. Our plaster expert hasn't weighed in yet. Maybe he'll spot this thread. In the meantime, how's it looking to you now? Do you like it?
Kim, who can we call in to answer the OP's questions and concerns?
What I am thinking is the the color changed so much due to so much of the plaster being scrubbed off so the pebbles show more and with it having those black pebbles it is showing up as darker. That is just my gut though. We could PM onbalance to ask for his input.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,636
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Yes, I'd love Onbalance's opinion!
The color still isn't anywhere near what we expected, but we hope it will grow on us. ...I'm not sure I have any other choice than that.
The color still isn't anywhere near what we expected, but we hope it will grow on us. ...I'm not sure I have any other choice than that.
Pool Clown
In The Industry
It appears that the picture on the left is the finished product and that is what it is supposed to look like (providing the plasterer used the correct aggregate and mud for your color selection). The pic on the right is the finished application with, maybe a bit more "butter" than it could have been left with. However, the acid wash cleaned it up very nicely, exposing the rock, the look you paid for. You don't want, or wouldn't want the rock swimming, or partially covered in a medium that is hiding the color of the rock, right?
Your signature says Wet Edqe Quartz, Madagascar. Wet edge is the company that makes/provides the components and the "recipe" that pool finish contractors are supposed to adhere to if they are to be warrantied by Wet Edge. Madagascar is a specific COLOR, PLASTER, and ROCK combination or ratio. You should have one other word associated with your pick that defines the "finish" of THAT surface. I also saw you post "Satin Matrix. It is supposed to be NorthShore Tahoe". Satin Matrix is a finish like Pebble tec, but with a bit smaller rock. That is left, meaning it does not get polished.
Now like i said earlier, this manufacturer makes, and or provides the material, and someone else follows the recipe, and applies the product. Your finish, for better or worse (your call), appears like it may have a bit more rock in it than what the samples that Wet Edge may supply to their customers (your plasterer).
So, your selection has two colors. The rock, be it multi color (more than one color of rock), and the mud or butter that holds it all together. If you have too much rock, it hides the color of the mud, and looks more like the color(s) of the rock. Too little, and the surface color is skewed toward the color of the butter. You may, or may not, had a chance to see a sample, but rather went to a finished pool to see the color in question. Which is perfectly normal because mixing comparatively VERY small batches for the purpose of making samples can be very subjective with regard to the correct mix as well, so you can see that while the manufacturer tries, this is not a perfect science with regard to color(s) and their variation. And this is something that you should have been forewarned about up front.
IOW, if YOU like the color, the rest of the product, and it's application, looks fine to me.
Note: The terms "Mud" and or "butter" is what i use, and may not be the same throughout the industry. It refers to what would otherwise be called straight plaster without any rock (aggregate).
Your signature says Wet Edqe Quartz, Madagascar. Wet edge is the company that makes/provides the components and the "recipe" that pool finish contractors are supposed to adhere to if they are to be warrantied by Wet Edge. Madagascar is a specific COLOR, PLASTER, and ROCK combination or ratio. You should have one other word associated with your pick that defines the "finish" of THAT surface. I also saw you post "Satin Matrix. It is supposed to be NorthShore Tahoe". Satin Matrix is a finish like Pebble tec, but with a bit smaller rock. That is left, meaning it does not get polished.
Now like i said earlier, this manufacturer makes, and or provides the material, and someone else follows the recipe, and applies the product. Your finish, for better or worse (your call), appears like it may have a bit more rock in it than what the samples that Wet Edge may supply to their customers (your plasterer).
So, your selection has two colors. The rock, be it multi color (more than one color of rock), and the mud or butter that holds it all together. If you have too much rock, it hides the color of the mud, and looks more like the color(s) of the rock. Too little, and the surface color is skewed toward the color of the butter. You may, or may not, had a chance to see a sample, but rather went to a finished pool to see the color in question. Which is perfectly normal because mixing comparatively VERY small batches for the purpose of making samples can be very subjective with regard to the correct mix as well, so you can see that while the manufacturer tries, this is not a perfect science with regard to color(s) and their variation. And this is something that you should have been forewarned about up front.
IOW, if YOU like the color, the rest of the product, and it's application, looks fine to me.
Note: The terms "Mud" and or "butter" is what i use, and may not be the same throughout the industry. It refers to what would otherwise be called straight plaster without any rock (aggregate).
Pool Clown
In The Industry
Here is what my sample looks like...
I have wet the left side, not a shadow.
Here is what the butter should look like. I could have wet-ed that better.
And a close up.
I have wet the left side, not a shadow.
Here is what the butter should look like. I could have wet-ed that better.
And a close up.
Hi Pool Clown...
To clear up some confusion: It is a very long and not very fun story....but our pool is 6 months old--- It started out having Luna Quartz Madagascar and has been re-plastered in Satin matrix Northshore Tahoe. I need to update my signature.
Thank you for your info above. My plaster does now, after the acid bath, does look much like your Tahoe picture and the water has the desired med-deep hue. Before the acid bath, however, it was considerably lighter--meaning a light, light concrete gray color..and this is wet. The overall color was so light that I could see individual black pebbles from an story above my pool. The plaster did not darken as your show above when wet, either. The pool water was a bright Caribbean blue color. It seems the acid bath has changed it. Based on all of the responses given, it seems that darkening is either due to more pebble exposure or the acid bath physically darkening the butter (and the butter appears obviously darker to the naked eye). Either cause is ok...I am just hoping it stays darker and does not go back to how it looked originally... The rep from Wet Edge is coming to evaluate soon--I will be asking him what he attributes the change in color to as well as the longevity. (I been working with him for the past few months to resolve issues with the plaster. Even though our issues are not related to the quality or performance of his product, I have found him very knowledgeable and willing to help. His commitment to quality customer service has been refreshing!)
Thanks again for all the info, everyone!
To clear up some confusion: It is a very long and not very fun story....but our pool is 6 months old--- It started out having Luna Quartz Madagascar and has been re-plastered in Satin matrix Northshore Tahoe. I need to update my signature.
Thank you for your info above. My plaster does now, after the acid bath, does look much like your Tahoe picture and the water has the desired med-deep hue. Before the acid bath, however, it was considerably lighter--meaning a light, light concrete gray color..and this is wet. The overall color was so light that I could see individual black pebbles from an story above my pool. The plaster did not darken as your show above when wet, either. The pool water was a bright Caribbean blue color. It seems the acid bath has changed it. Based on all of the responses given, it seems that darkening is either due to more pebble exposure or the acid bath physically darkening the butter (and the butter appears obviously darker to the naked eye). Either cause is ok...I am just hoping it stays darker and does not go back to how it looked originally... The rep from Wet Edge is coming to evaluate soon--I will be asking him what he attributes the change in color to as well as the longevity. (I been working with him for the past few months to resolve issues with the plaster. Even though our issues are not related to the quality or performance of his product, I have found him very knowledgeable and willing to help. His commitment to quality customer service has been refreshing!)
Thanks again for all the info, everyone!
Pool Clown
In The Industry
Think of it this way... Before you had the acid solution, the plaster job was not yet finished. Now it is finished. You can tell by the way you can see each rock, unlike before when you had more of a "chocolate chip" look, with the only contrast being predominately the black rock. How about a picture of the whole pool?
