Bromine start up/reserve

[jbolton2911]

Hello, new member/lurker here and first thing I want to say is thank you for the vast amount of information. I have a background and plumbing and maintaining saltwater aquariums. So I do have a firm understanding of water chemistry. Sanitation is new to me, specifically bromine and thanks to this forums “how to use bromine” thread I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of it which brings me to my question. I know I need to start a bromine bank by dosing sodium bromide up to 30ppm but when I went to my local spa store they did not have sodium bromide although they did have a product by leisure pools called brominating granular.
Is this something that I can use in place of 99% sodium bromide or would it make more sense to just order sodium bromide online? TIA

These are the listed ingredients.
Sodium Dichloro-s-Triazinetrione Anhydrous - 84.15%
Sodium Bromide - 14.70%
Other Ingredients - 1.15%
Here is a copy paste of the directions

Directions For Use​

Start-Up​

1. Add 7.5 grams (1 1/2 teaspoons) of this product per 300 gallons of water directly into the spa or hot tub with the circulation system on
2. Measure bromine residuals after 15 minutes and repeat dosage until an active bromine concentration of 2 to 4 ppm in residential spas is established

​

 

[Mdragger88]

You can certainly use this - it “activates itself” from my understanding. The trouble is with calculating when you have actually reached the bromide bank level you want to achieve since you can only measure total bromine. At that point you would discontinue its use and then switch to bleach or mps for reactivating your bank.
I am unsure of the calculations to achieve this knowledge because sodium bromide isn’t included in poolmath so Let’s ask @JoyfulNoise how to go about this.
Filling out your signature with your volume would be helpful here.
Also, since it contains dichlor it is acidic so you you will need to take its effects on ph (& subsequently ta) into consideration as well.

 

[Mdragger88]

Here’s another recent thread on the subject that may help

Building a Bromide Bank with Sodium Bromide granules

I have always sanitized my hot tub using the 3-step system described in How do I use Bromine in my spa (or pool)? I used liquid 'Rendezvous Enhance' (35% Sodium Bromide) The instructions were clear that the initial dose was @ 125ml/1000l water. I rarely used the weekly dose of 30ml/1000l and I...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I think you should be able to get NaBr off the internet for pretty cheap. You can use that granular product if you want but it’s going to take a heck of a lot of it to get up to 30ppm Br- since the amount in the mix is fairly low. Honestly speaking, there’s no need to build up a bromide bank if you’re going to use bromine tablets. It’s just easier to manage the use of the bromine tabs and water balance and dump the tub regularly.

Bromine is a PITA to use in a hot tub. Chlorine is better and testing for it is much more straight forward than bromine. You can also use a drape-over SWG like a Saltorn Mini to make maintaining FC levels very consistent. If you want an easier tub maintenance life, switch to chlorine.

 

[jbolton2911]

Thank you for the quick replies. @JoyfulNoise by saying a bromine bank isn’t absolutely necessary does that imply that I should be able to just drop some bromine tablets in the feeder turn it up and let it do its thing? I haven’t set up my signature yet but it might help you guys/gals to help me in my situation if I elaborated a bit. Please keep in mind that 3 weeks ago I had zero pool experience or knowledge.
I recently took a job at a condominium complex as the maintenance/grounds guy and included in my job tasks is taking care of the pool and hot tub (pool is closed for winter) so I haven’t done anything with it yet but also there is a 2,500gal in ground hot tub. They run Bromine in both and up until 3 weeks ago I hadn’t even heard of bromine and my boss was under the impression that it was just like chlorine only less harsh and less smelly. I did a drain and fill, balanced the water, and brought calcium up. What I couldn’t do was keep br in range, every time I moved the feeder dial from the 1 hash to the 1 1/2 hash the next day br would measure either 0 or 10+. To me that seems unsafe so I did some research and had him order a Taylor 2106 test kit I then took note of all the equipment and started educating myself by downloading manuals and googling. Turns out we had a Hayward cl200 1 1/2” in-line feeder but it was nippled down from 1 1/2 to 3/4” and was in an “off-line” configuration so I re-plumbed it in-line after the filter and heater. Now we’re running a floater w/br tabs because he doesn’t quite trust the feeder still but after running the floater overnight the br is testing zero and the tub has a very strong Chlorine odor. (Correction) the floater didn’t go overnight I put it in around 2pm although it had been removed sometime in the evening I’m assuming due to the Chlorine odor.

Sorry for the short story novel I just didn’t know how to condense that information any more than that.

 

[jbolton2911]

Also I do plan on having a conversation about switching from bromine to chlorine but I doubt he’ll want to switch anytime soon as we have an almost full 50lb bucket of br tabs sitting in the pump room so unless it seems cost effective to him to discard the br and buy chlorine tabs it won’t happen as I hold no weight in that debate.

 

[jbolton2911]

Mods feel free to move this tread if it’s in the wrong sub forum

 

[mknauss]

Mods feel free to move this tread if it’s in the wrong sub forum

It is in the correct sub forum. You are speaking of a hot tub.

 

[Mdragger88]

Is this large hot tub outdoors & uncovered?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

If this is a community hot tub, then you need to follow the guidance of your local health department. For legal reasons, nothing that is said here counts, your local health department is the final authority on all matters of sanitation.

 

[DavidLast]

The granular bromine and the tablets are likely the same product. It is known as BCMDH.

For commercial use, and it depends on the local statutory requirements to some extent, consider more frequent hot tub draining. We drain 25% of the volume once per week and a complete drain and refill every 4 weeks.

When drained, we make a liquid chlorine solution of 1 part to 10 parts water and scrub the surface with it. This assists with removing biofilm and reducing bacteria counts.

After scrubbing wash down with clean water and pump this to waste if can.

Then refill and balance spa.

This procedure may not be included in your local health guidelines. However, it is well worth doing. The more used the hot tub, the more important this becomes.

Another important question on this hot tub is what size community is using it. I deal with spas with loadings as high as one person to 50 litres of water (less than ideal). Is this spa on a hotel, apartment or some other facility?

 

[jbolton2911]

Is this large hot tub outdoors & uncovered?

It is outdoors and has a bubble wrap type cover that just floats on the water.

 

[jbolton2911]

Another important question on this hot tub is what size community is using it. I deal with spas with loadings as high as one person to 50 litres of water (less than ideal). Is this spa on a hotel, apartment or some other facility?

Thanks for that info on health department regulation I suppose I’ll be delving into that aspect next as I hadn’t even really thought about that and tbh I’m not even sure if I’m supposed to have a qualification or license for this part of my job. To answer your questions It is in a condominium complex with 50 units and I guesstimate that the tub averages about 10-20 bathers a week during the winter and probably 30+ a week in the summer.

 

[jbolton2911]

If this is a community hot tub, then you need to follow the guidance of your local health department. For legal reasons, nothing that is said here counts, your local health department is the final authority on all matters of sanitation.

Thank you, and yes I do know that all the information provided here is considered “for entertainment purposes only” but I also know that there is a ton of very useful information from both recreational pool owners as well as experienced professionals. In short this forum and members post hold no liability for information given.

 

[Mdragger88]

It is outdoors and has a bubble wrap type cover that just floats on the water.

I ask because bromine gets depleted very quickly by the sun. It is not a good choice for sanitizing an outdoor uncovered spa.
Ymmv in this situation depending upon how often it remains covered.

Sodium Bromide - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thank you, and yes I do know that all the information provided here is considered “for entertainment purposes only” but I also know that there is a ton of very useful information from both recreational pool owners as well as experienced professionals. In short this forum and members post hold no liability for information given.

I’m not worried about my liability … but I would be concerned about yours. Before agreeing to take care of any recreational community-use water body, you should investigate what requirements exist at the county health dept level. Some jurisdictions require that a community pool/spa be maintained by someone or business that has an actual CPO license. Your condo liability insurance might also want a say in how the hot tub is maintained as any liabilities could potentially impact them.

The advice here is free and for general use to anyone. But I suggest you do more homework on your end to avoid any grief.

 

[jbolton2911]

Thank you for that information, I did do that research and found that the city has no jurisdiction in how they run the pool/spa because technically it’s not a public space being that the residents that own the units actually own the property and as well. Thanks to this community and me re-plumbing the tablet feeder I have gotten good readings all week.

I would though like to hear thoughts on switching to chlorine because after I went to the only 3 spa stores in my town looking for sodium bromide all 3 stores recommended switching to chlorine due to the size of the hot tub. I mentioned this to my boss and he told me that he contacted Hayward to ask them about that and they said that in order to switch to chlorine we wouldn’t be able to use the same feeder that a new one would have to be purchased because once you use bromine you can’t just switch to chlorine which makes no sense to me considering that bromine tabs will create chlorine until enough is dissolved to generate bromine. They also suggested a bromine specific feeder. I think it sounds like a marketing ploy but am curious if anyone has heard of anything like that or has had experience switching.

 

[Mdragger88]

Not sure about the feeder- I do know that mixing different types of chlorine in a feeder can cause an explosion so it’s not a far fetched possibility that you would need a new one. The other possibility is that they are designed to dissolve at different rates.
Trichlor can dissolve very rapidly in hot water leading to too much fc & also an acidic condition.
Here’s the other rub with switching to trichlor tabs- they contain cya. As the level of cya rises so does the necessary fc level. The cya doesn’t leave unless you replace the water. If you change the water every week this may not be a problem.

Here’s what each 8oz trichlor tab will do in that size pool/spa

It gets hard to maintain a spa when cya gets above 50ppm.
For this reason we suggest switching to liquid chlorine once cya gets around 30/40ppm.
Another alternative would be a using a salt water chlorine generator.
If you can get the bromine management under control & the spa stays mostly covered sticking with bromine may be the least work considering your bather load.

Here’s the guides for each sanitizer choice - they are also pinned to the top of this sub forum

How do I use Bromine in my Spa or Hot Tub?

Originally Posted by waterbear There is a lot of misinformation on the proper way to use Bromine so I hope this primer is helpful. First, you need to establish a bromide reserve in the water. Bromine tablets can do it by themselves but it can take literally weeks until enough dissolves. Some...

www.troublefreepool.com

How do I use Chlorine in my Spa or Hot Tub?

If you have a question about any information within this Sticky, please start a new thread for yourself where you will receive very quick responses to your specific questions. Thank you! Introduction There are two main things to consider when maintaining your hot tub water, Water Balance and...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[jbolton2911]

@Mdragger88 It has been decided to stick with bromine (which I actually prefer now that I’ve got a grasp on it) nonetheless that tidbit on chlorine tabs is really interesting, basically if I am understanding correctly if one was to go with chlorine tabs in a feeder the amount of cya would start and continue to rise as the trichlor tabs dissolve until the point where stability becomes unmanageable at which time you’d have to drain/fill. Kind of seems like the chemistry of chlorine tabs defeat the purpose of an automatic tab feeder when your going to have to take it offline and switch to liquid chlorine/bleach once cya rises to said level. I wonder if, as an alternative you could just add cya to desired level then inject liquid chlorine with a dosing pump set to a specific gpd/gph either with a programmable Controler or just running on a timer just like you would to inject trace minerals into an aquarium. That is of course assuming that automation was the goal of the feeder in the first place.

 

[Mdragger88]

@Mdragger88 It has been decided to stick with bromine (which I actually prefer now that I’ve got a grasp on it) nonetheless that tidbit on chlorine tabs is really interesting, basically if I am understanding correctly if one was to go with chlorine tabs in a feeder the amount of cya would start and continue to rise as the trichlor tabs dissolve until the point where stability becomes unmanageable at which time you’d have to drain/fill. Kind of seems like the chemistry of chlorine tabs defeat the purpose of an automatic tab feeder when your going to have to take it offline and switch to liquid chlorine/bleach once cya rises to said level. I wonder if, as an alternative you could just add cya to desired level then inject liquid chlorine with a dosing pump set to a specific gpd/gph either with a programmable Controler or just running on a timer just like you would to inject trace minerals into an aquarium. That is of course assuming that automation was the goal of the feeder in the first place.

Exactly- this is how we recommend you do in a chlorine pool (get cya up to 30ppm with granular stabilizer) there are liquid feeders & many here have them.
About the bromine:
Initially Dosing with 100% sodium bromide to establish your bank upon fresh fill (as outlined at the top of the br guide)
is the most straightforward way to operate a bromine spa in my opinion. This way you know what you’re testing. Then if you choose to use br tabs they are just keeping your “reserve” up & their included oxidizer (usually dichlor) helps to keep up the “active” (total bromine) level steady leaving the spa maintainer to just schock occasionally as needed & adjust the feeder as needed instead of having to babysit the spa.
Total disclosure - I personally don’t like bromine
As it can be a little mysterious & i find it irritating but in this situation it’s likely the best path to adequately maintaining a sanitary spa with your current setup. You will still need to test br & ph daily but you won’t have to worry every time someone is using the spa that they are bottoming out the sanitizer level.
The other best options for running this as a chlorine spa would be a liquid chlorine doser or a salt water chlorine generator that feeds the spa.
I assume that you don’t just sit by this spa & maintain some kind of a schedule for when you check on it. Manually dosing a basically public chlorine spa with a high & sporadic bather load will be tedious.