Automatic Fill/Level Monitoring

[Billy_McSkintos]

I'm sharing this in case its helpful to anyone else. I already had a 1/2 inch line to a valve on the side of my house to fill the pool but I suspect this could be added to a hose bib too, if necessary.

I recently remodeled part of my home and extended the kitchen. I had to move the hose bib and the external valve that I used to manually fill my pool, so I chose to automate the fill process. The systems I researched seemed expensive (Kona Labs LevelSmart is ~$680) or ugly (Fill-o-Matic), so I used some existing smart home products from Yolink. Specifically (also available on Amazon):

Hub (Required) $24
Valve Controller & 1/2" Motorized Valve $90
Water Level Sensor $24

Via the app I set some automations: IF the water level sensor does not detect water, THEN the ball valve opens and fills the pool. IF the sensor detects water at my desired level, THEN the valve closes. I can trigger it with a remote (from the same company) if I choose or via the app or Alexa/Google Home. Range and reliability is amazing and, when I have required support, they have responded in a few hours, even on the weekends. I was already using some of their other smart home stuff anyway so had the hub in place. As my contractor was moving the valve anyway, for ~$125 I automated the pool fill.

Anyway, I am delighted with the end result and hope someone else finds this useful.

 

[Dirk]

Thanks for sharing. Sounds good.

Is your level sensor in the pool somewhere? Or somewhere at the pool's water level, perhaps through an equalizer pipe? Curios about how that works.

Do you mind if I add a few tips?

If you have hard water, a water softener and a plaster pool, where CH levels not only tend to rise, but are important to control for the health of your pool's finish, plumbing your auto-fill system to the indoor water, which is on the soft water circuit, is a great way to help control the CH. Outdoor hose bibbs should be plumbed to an un-softened plumbing circuit, and can contribute to CH rise over time.

And auto-fill systems where the outlet of the water that fills the pool is below the water level of the pool, should include a back-flow preventer (a special type of valve).

Enjoy your auto-filling. I wouldn't ever want to be without it, and it's still a mystery to me why they are not standard on every pool. So convenient.

 

[Billy_McSkintos]

Is your level sensor in the pool somewhere? Or somewhere at the pool's water level, perhaps through an equalizer pipe? Curios about how that works.

As its a tiny probe, its mounted in an inconspicuous area of my pool, with the probe at the (desired) water line. YoLink also has a water detection line that detects anywhere along its length. I considered adding that somewhere more discrete but the probe was just simpler. When I redo the coping, I'll make it completely invisible (but serviceable).

Do you mind if I add a few tips?

Of course not, really helpful information that I hadn't considered, thank you!

 

[Dirk]

As its a tiny probe, its mounted in an inconspicuous area of my pool, with the probe at the (desired) water line. YoLink also has a water detection line that detects anywhere along its length. I considered adding that somewhere more discrete but the probe was just simpler. When I redo the coping, I'll make it completely invisible (but serviceable).

I installed a temperature probe in the body of my pool, so that's why I was curious. Had to kinda retrofit it, probably something like you did.

I like automation, monitoring, surveillance, etc, but the pool industry, especially builders, seem reluctant to evolve just about any aspect of pool construction. Pools should have, as standard, auto-leveling systems (fill and overflow), temperature sensors, movement sensors (for safety), level monitors, pH sensors, etc, etc., all built in, but modular for repair or upgrading. Probably could all be in a single spot, or niche, similar to how pool lights are installed. But for some reason nobody bothered to ask me how I'd do it!

 

[Billy_McSkintos]

Pools should have, as standard, auto-leveling systems (fill and overflow), temperature sensors, movement sensors (for safety), level monitors, pH sensors, etc, etc., all built in, but modular for repair or upgrading

Couldn't agree more!

installed a temperature probe in the body of my pool, so that's why I was curious. Had to kinda retrofit it, probably something like you did.

I added a temperature probe too (Yolink), but again, its just mounted discretely. How did you add yours to the pool?

 

[Dirk]

I'll be doing a write up about it soon. It was a bit complicated. I'll keep you posted...

 

[johnw]

I almost pulled the trigger on the LevelSmart system but came across this thread and you definitely caught my attention.

A couple questions.
Does wave action in the pool cause intermittent opening and closing of the valve? If so, is there a way to program through the app to prevent this like setting maximum timers like 7 minutes per hour or minimum amount of time the sensor contacts contact water before filling?
Is the electronics portion of the sensor water resistant?

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

Enjoy your auto-filling. I wouldn't ever want to be without it, and it's still a mystery to me why they are not standard on every pool. So convenient.

I have always wondered whether auto-fill would hide leaks. If I have a leak here in Drought Land, I want to know about it, not just keep filling the pool to compensate. Are there "smart" auto-fillers which notify if they are filling more than a certain amount per day?

 

[jark87]

Pools should have, as standard, auto-leveling systems (fill and overflow), temperature sensors, movement sensors (for safety), level monitors, pH sensors, etc, etc., all built in, but modular for repair or upgrading.

I’d settle for something easier and more reliable than the CYA dot test….

 

[Billy_McSkintos]

Does wave action in the pool cause intermittent opening and closing of the valve? If so, is there a way to program through the app to prevent this like setting maximum timers like 7 minutes per hour or minimum amount of time the sensor contacts contact water before filling?
Is the electronics portion of the sensor water resistant?

- No it hasn't triggered the sensor. It isn't immediately dry when a wave washes away. The "alarm" can be set any time of the day i.e. fill at night if you need.
- You can also set it to turn off after xx minutes automatically regardless of the level state.
- You can set the the "alarm" to be disabled after its run and re-enable in 24 hours.
- There are are also "cool down" options too so that you can set your 7 minutes per hour fill.
- Water resistant: I could not say definitively but the company are quick to respond. Although I live in SoCal, they are outside by the pool and I have had no problems.
- Leaks: As there is a history of when the fill ran, it might make detecting leaks easier not harder. I can see that every day it runs and for how long.

 

[johnw]

- No it hasn't triggered the sensor. It isn't immediately dry when a wave washes away. The "alarm" can be set any time of the day i.e. fill at night if you need.
- You can also set it to turn off after xx minutes automatically regardless of the level state.
- You can set the the "alarm" to be disabled after its run and re-enable in 24 hours.
- There are are also "cool down" options too so that you can set your 7 minutes per hour fill.
- Water resistant: I could not say definitively but the company are quick to respond. Although I live in SoCal, they are outside by the pool and I have had no problems.
- Leaks: As there is a history of when the fill ran, it might make detecting leaks easier not harder. I can see that every day it runs and for how long.

Thanks for the info! I decided I’m going to go this route instead of the $675 LevelSmart with a small change. I want to use this relay with a sprinkler valve and transformer instead of the motorized valve you listed.

YoLink Smart Relay - YoLink Hub Required

INTRODUCTION: Smart relay, can control electrical loads up to 5 amps at 120V (or control larger loads by using this relay to control other relays or contactors with sufficient voltage and current ratings) FEATURES: One normally-open dry set of contacts for control of electrical circuits or...

shop.yosmart.com

Reason being I don’t want a battery operated valve to eliminate the possibility of the battery dying with the valve in the open position. Also, since there could be many valve cycles, I don’t want to have to replace batteries and I have 2 spare sprinkler valves on hand. It looks like the programming for the relay is the same as the motorized valve you used. What do you think?

 

[Dirk]

I have always wondered whether auto-fill would hide leaks. If I have a leak here in Drought Land, I want to know about it, not just keep filling the pool to compensate. Are there "smart" auto-fillers which notify if they are filling more than a certain amount per day?

There are three non-obvious aspects to auto-leveling that should be understood before signing up.

1. They can protect your pump. Should some sort of leak occur, as long as the water loss is less than what the auto-leveler can output, your pump will be protected from starving (and damage), because the water level won't drop below the skimmer opening. There are other ways to provide this type of protection in a pool, but an auto-leveler is one of them.

2. The other side of that coin is what you identified. If you're not paying attention to your pool, and you develop a leak, the auto-leveler will happily top off your pool indefinitely. You might not notice until the water bill arrives, and depending on the leak and when it started, you could be in for some major sticker shock!

3. They can fail and just run, like a toilet (some auto-filler valves look and work just like a toilet valve).

I don't know of any leveling system that has any smarts to them, but they may exist. You could build one, I suppose. You could install a "smart" water meter on your auto-filler supply line and have it report to your computer or phone, even putting up an alert if some threshold per day was exceeded. That would be some sort of custom build, not sure anything like that exists out of the box.

I had my first auto-filler fail, open, of course, and I must have caught it in time because it didn't affect my water bill. It happened right after I modified the line that feeds it, so I probably dislodged a chunk of calcium and it got stuck in the filler valve somehow. So I now guard against that happening in several ways:

- I have since plumbed my filler to my water softener, which is also filtered, so the chances of a piece of calcium or other crud reaching the auto-filler is near-zero.

- My auto-filler is right next to my skimmer, so I check on it every time I check my skimmer basket, which is quite often. It's obvious when the filler is running, so I'd catch it if there was a leak or failure. It's another pool system, and like all pool systems (pump, filter, SWG, skimmer, vac, plumbing, chemisty, etc) it has to be monitored regularly. Daily is prudent. The less you monitor your pool, the higher the chance a minor failure can turn into an epic disaster. That's no more or less true for auto-leveling.

- I'll replace the valve every few years (they're cheap) and ward off failure from wear.

As I've joked elsewhere, I cannot seem to fill my little fountain without forgetting the hose is running. I've let it go overnight more than once. And I only have to deal with that every week or so. If I had to top off my pool every day, I would most certainly forget that, too. The amount of water I would waste, over years, would far exceed any auto-filler failure that might happen, that I might not catch for a day or two, easily by hundreds if not thousands of dollars. So while wasted water due to an auto-leverer is a slim possibility, for me, wasting water by filling manually is a guarantee. The reward outweighs the risk. And that is in addition to the convenience of an auto-leveler. I never have to think about the water level, and I never have to go out in the pouring rain to drain water out of my pool!

The other consideration, is that they are not all that expensive. If you find it's not working out for you, you twist a valve and you never have to think about it again. But if you later regret not installing one during your build, you're out of luck.

There are some that somehow can attach to your pad plumbing, after the fact, but I have no idea how they work or if they work well. Perhaps one of that type could monitor water usage?

 

[Dirk]

Thanks for the info! I decided I’m going to go this route instead of the $675 LevelSmart with a small change. I want to use this relay with a sprinkler valve and transformer instead of the motorized valve you listed.

YoLink Smart Relay - YoLink Hub Required

INTRODUCTION: Smart relay, can control electrical loads up to 5 amps at 120V (or control larger loads by using this relay to control other relays or contactors with sufficient voltage and current ratings) FEATURES: One normally-open dry set of contacts for control of electrical circuits or...

shop.yosmart.com

Reason being I don’t want a battery operated valve to eliminate the possibility of the battery dying with the valve in the open position. Also, since there could be many valve cycles, I don’t want to have to replace batteries and I have 2 spare sprinkler valves on hand. It looks like the programming for the relay is the same as the motorized valve you used. What do you think?

I guess we were writing at the same time, and you've got a solution. Sounds like you want to automate your filler, x amount of gallons per day. That'll work. Though you'll need to adjust the amount for all the seasons, as the water will evaporate a different amount virtually every day. I expect it'll be like adjusting your filter pump run time, or your SWG output, several times a year. No big deal.

It does solve the "not noticing a leak" issue, but it's still a "gizmo" and still prone to failure (your electronics could turn it on inadvertently, or leave it on, as you mentioned, indefinitely). For me, I'd rather take the risks I described above, and get the full convenience of a true auto-leveler system. Just a matter of your own personal risk tolerance, vs level of convenience.

 

[Billy_McSkintos]

Thanks for the info! I decided I’m going to go this route instead of the $675 LevelSmart with a small change. I want to use this relay with a sprinkler valve and transformer instead of the motorized valve you listed.

YoLink Smart Relay - YoLink Hub Required

INTRODUCTION: Smart relay, can control electrical loads up to 5 amps at 120V (or control larger loads by using this relay to control other relays or contactors with sufficient voltage and current ratings) FEATURES: One normally-open dry set of contacts for control of electrical circuits or...

shop.yosmart.com

Reason being I don’t want a battery operated valve to eliminate the possibility of the battery dying with the valve in the open position. Also, since there could be many valve cycles, I don’t want to have to replace batteries and I have 2 spare sprinkler valves on hand. It looks like the programming for the relay is the same as the motorized valve you used. What do you think?

They do a powered version of the valve controller too. I use that.

 

[johnw]

They do a powered version of the valve controller too. I use that.

Can you post a link? I’m having trouble finding it.

 

[Billy_McSkintos]

YoLink Smart Wireless Water Valve Controller supports both Batteries and External 12VDC - HUB REQUIRED × 1

 

[johnw]

Hmm, I can't find it but this is the name of the item in my order history. Eric@yosmart.com responds really quickly in my experience.

YoLink Smart Wireless Water Valve Controller supports both Batteries and External 12VDC - HUB REQUIRED × 1

Thanks Billy.
So your motorized valve controller is hardwired off of a power supply and not 4 AA batteries?

 

[Billy_McSkintos]

Actually both, it has battery backup as well as the 12vdc from the wall. The 12v controller was an extra $50. I emailed Eric and confirmed they do still have a few or make them on demand. Eric asked you email him directly: eric@yosmart.com

 

[Billy_McSkintos]

Deleted

 

[Oriluv]

My 18 year old autofill cracked at the inlet where the fluid master float screws in. I was told the only way to repair it is to take out concrete, etc $2500. I got some JB water weld and applied that to the cracks a couple of days ago. I am going to turn on the water to see if that has solved the problem but just in case, I’ve been researching other ways to replace it. I looked at Kona labs which looks very intriguing because it is ‘wireless’. I’ve also considered incorporating my rachio and an irrigation valve. I do like this yolink idea, I wish the water level sensor was wireless. Is this still working for you? Other than cost, is kona labs good? ie, reliable from anyone with experience with it?