about waterproofing the concrete shell

[someone2021]

hello everyone, the first pool in my life is about 82 x 12 feet with vanishing edge. the tile installation with membrane C underneath is just finished yesterday.
After talking Basecrete product with my pool builder about water proofing the bare concrete shell(anywhere without tiles), he has more than 30 years of pool building experience, but still not sure about the benefit of this product, anyone in southern California area had used this basecrete on the concrete shell?

I saw there is another thread talking about this :

Waterproofing a new pool

Has anyone had any experience with water proofing their new gunite pool prior to plaster? Or if anyone is a builder and has knowledge of it, or if anyone has been pitched by a builder that has knowledge. I unexpectedly had additional time waiting for plaster and have started researching doing...

www.troublefreepool.com

it basically says not many people use it, because plaster is waterproofing, however, some webpage says plaster is not waterproofing, I am confused, not sure who is right. so would like to get more information before making my decision.

 

[Dirk]

Plaster is waterproof.

Edit: after scanning that linked thread, let me rephrase. Pool plaster kept underwater is waterproof. Plaster exposed to sun and air and going wet then dry, etc, is on its own...

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

I am not sure what it is that you are trying to "waterproof"...

Plaster is what makes gunite waterproof... Putting a waterproofing liquid between the gunite and the plaster is a huge waste of money.. I suspect they want $1,500 or more to do it...

Are you talking about the area that would normally be filled with pool water below the waterline tile??

Show us some pics of where they want to add the waterproofing..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

Plaster is waterproof as long as no cracks develop in the plaster.

Tile is waterproof but hairline cracks often develop in the grout lines that allow water to get behind the tiles and into the gunite.

Joints around lights, returns and skimmers need to be sealed properly to be waterproof.

Water leaks usually come from where plaster interfaces with other surfaces.

 

[someone2021]

The interior wall of the main tank has some hair line cracks, some are on the grout, some are on the gunite shell right below the waterline tiles.

The pool-water-drain pipe connection has 4" deep, assume need some process to do waterproofing? Please refer to the attached images.

 

[someone2021]

The exterior wall of both the main tank and catch tank have too many bigs cracks.

the most weird thing is a big hole about 6 inch in diameter and about 8 inch deep can be seen on the catch tank exterior wall. what should I do with this big hole? fill with concrete and waterproofing? i am surprised there is no rebar exposed inside this 8" deep hole.

please refer to the images attached.

 

[ajw22]

If you were going to put a layer of Basecrete on it should have been on the tile area before tiling.

The shrinkage cracks in the gunite will be filled by plaster.

The hole should be filled with hydraulic cement.

The grout areas with shrinkage cracks should be redone.

You have any pics of the shell rebar before gunite?

 

[someone2021]

Ajw22, thank you for the valuable comments.
My tile installer use MiraFlex Membrance C under all the glass tile area which include all the water lines and vanishing edge.

Attached are images of the rebar before gunite.

 

[ajw22]

Looks like you have enough rebar. Were the pool plans stamped by an engineer?

 

[Dirk]

Allen's got you covered regarding the gunite. That tile job looks funky to me: mis-aligned tiles, grout lines of different widths, and that one corner is pretty bad, IMO. Instead of cutting the tiles to meet together better in that corner, he just filled it all in with grout, making that grout joint way too wide, which is why it cracked. Personally, I would reject that tile job, at least some of it, and have it redone correctly.

 

[someone2021]

Dirk, thank you for the comments about the tile installation.

Yes, I am very disappointed with the tile installation.

More pictures below show the cracks and bad alignments:

1: even though some grout line are thin, but still show hairline crack, which means the hairline has nothing to do with the width of the grout line. is that because of the formula of the grout is not right?(for example, too much or too less water? ) . or maybe the time needed to dry the thinset below tile is NOT enough? some poeple says it takes a few days to a month such that the thinset could be dry before grouting the tiles, my contractor just grout the tile the next day after the tile was set on the thinset.

2: some places show many fabric sticking out of the grout, would this be a potential problem?

3: other than that, the grout at some places are more than 3 quarters inch wide, some places are just one quarter inch wide. specifically at the vanishing edge where the glass tiles transit into the porcelain tiles.

 

[Dirk]

Yah, that's pretty poor workmanship. I don't know much about tile setting (other than what it's supposed to look like when done), so I can't speak to why the grout is cracking. Doesn't really matter, it's unacceptable. The mis-aligns are inexcusable. As are the different thicknesses of, well, everything.

If that work had been passed off as "done" on a kitchen or bath countertop, it would have been rejected. I don't see why a pool should be of any less quality. It's pretty much the exact same skill. The PB (or project manager) should have rejected that sub's work out of hand, before you ever saw it. The fact that he didn't speaks to the PB's idea of quality as well as the tile setter's.

Sorry to rub it in. Just one guys opinion, which you may or may not find useful. It was meant to inspire you to demand better of the PB...

I rejected work on my entire pool a few years back, and made them buy me a brand new, entire refinish. So I don't just talk the talk... The reason that contractors, more and more, are providing this level of quality is because consumers allow it...

You're in CA, so if you decide to take action, and the PB pushes back, I can help you with the "how to" of getting it redone.

 

[someone2021]

Dirk, thank you for the comments. I am the owner builder and directly hire the sub contractor to install the tiles. please give me the instruction about "how to" of getting it redone.

 

[Dirk]

Dirk, thank you for the comments. I am the owner builder and directly hire the sub contractor to install the tiles. please give me the instruction about "how to" of getting it redone.

Ha, well I mostly know how to go after a PB! But that's you. Still, the same principles (and laws) apply.

The first step is to see if you can resolve this issue amicably. You would call him to the job site for a meeting and then express your dissatisfaction with the quality of the work, and then express your expectations: namely you want it fixed, or redone entirely if need be (assuming you do want it fixed).

You speak to the work itself, the result, not to his skill or process. For example "These tiles should align better than this. Almost perfectly so as not to be noticeable," as opposed to "You should have aligned the tiles better than this. You put them in crooked." It's a not so subtle distinction, and can go a long way to keeping things civil. How you speak to him is as important as what you are saying. You are displeased with the tile, not him as a person.

His reaction will determine the next step(s). He will likely take it personally, but if you stick to the script that is on him, not you. Keep your emotions out of it. Just present the facts. Show him the defects. Describe what you think a quality job would look like, and why the work is not up to that level, or even industry standards. (There is no argument to justify those uneven grout lines and misaligned tiles.) You might even ask him if he would accept such work by another if it was done on his kitchen counter top. If all goes well, he'll agree and redo the job. If not, end the meeting and report back for "phase 2."

If your gut is telling you now that this is more likely to go south than not, you might consider having a third person there. Preferably not a spouse or relative. This person might end up being a witness. But will also serve as a buffer, perhaps keeping things civil just by his/her presence. If things do go south, after the sub has left make some notes: what was said, who said what, what was agreed to, or disputed.

Fingers crossed. People can surprise you if you give them the opportunity to do the right thing...

 

[martinkennedy]

I would add that you should waterproof the weir wall on both sides.

 

[martinkennedy]

 

[cowboycasey]

You can use Aquron waterproofing for the shell and grout, great company, just give them a call and they can tell you prices and quantities you will need, it penetrates about 5 inches into the shell..

Aquatic Structures - AQURON Concrete Solutions

aquron.com

Aquron CPSP - Aquron

Aquron CPSP JUST A FEW OF THE MANY BENEFITS: Change densifies and hardens concrete Stays pliable, allowing concrete to breathe Adds density and bonding strength Waterproofs Resists freeze-thaw spall off Increases thermal resistance Preserves embedded steel Retards or halts alkali-silica...

aquron.com

https://aquron.com/2019/06/21/aquron-mgs-mortar-grout-solution/ Only use this if you are using portland cement and sand grout, if using a modified grout do not use...