My electrical service is 20 years old. I have a master set of breakers to a sub panel where one breaker goes to my timer, salt controller and the main pump that keeps overheating. The second subpanel breaker goes to a second pump (zero edge) that I have not used all year. Can something happen to the breakers whic impact the pump motor? First picture is main box, 2nd is subpanel and 3rd are pumps. Main pump is to the right. Thanks for suggestions
Keep blowing pump motors pool guy says call electrician
- Thread starter Janhillatx
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 60,958
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
How do you know your pump is overheating?
Has anyone checked the voltage at the pumps L1/L2 wires with a multimeter.
Your pump CBs are not GFCI which is required for safety. That is reason enough to replace the breakers.
Your sub panel may have corrosion or other issues in it. If you are comfortable working around live circuits yiu can open up the panel and show us pictures of what you fine. Or you can bring in a qualified electrician.
Has anyone checked the voltage at the pumps L1/L2 wires with a multimeter.
Your pump CBs are not GFCI which is required for safety. That is reason enough to replace the breakers.
Your sub panel may have corrosion or other issues in it. If you are comfortable working around live circuits yiu can open up the panel and show us pictures of what you fine. Or you can bring in a qualified electrician.
Usually an undersized motor for the impeller.
Also possibly the wrong voltage.
Maybe voltage drop during operation.
What impeller do you have?
Check voltage and current under load.
Impeller......Total HP.
073126.........0.95
073127.........1.25
073128.........1.65
073129.........2.20
073130.........2.60
073131.........3.45
The impeller chart is misleading because it shows a HP required, but this is the listed HP without the service factor.
The total hp is the rated hp x the service factor.
A 1.0 hp motor with a service factor of 1.65 is the same as a 1.5 hp motor with a service factor of 1.1.
A 1.0 hp motor with a service factor of 1.65 is called a "full rated" motor.
A 1.5 hp motor with a service factor of 1.1 is called an "up-rated" motor.
They are both the exact same motor. They both have a total of 1.65 hp.
So, it's confusing to see one listed as 1 hp and the other listed as 1.5 hp.
The key is the total hp, which is what really matters.
Also possibly the wrong voltage.
Maybe voltage drop during operation.
What impeller do you have?
Check voltage and current under load.
Impeller......Total HP.
073126.........0.95
073127.........1.25
073128.........1.65
073129.........2.20
073130.........2.60
073131.........3.45
The impeller chart is misleading because it shows a HP required, but this is the listed HP without the service factor.
The total hp is the rated hp x the service factor.
A 1.0 hp motor with a service factor of 1.65 is the same as a 1.5 hp motor with a service factor of 1.1.
A 1.0 hp motor with a service factor of 1.65 is called a "full rated" motor.
A 1.5 hp motor with a service factor of 1.1 is called an "up-rated" motor.
They are both the exact same motor. They both have a total of 1.65 hp.
So, it's confusing to see one listed as 1 hp and the other listed as 1.5 hp.
The key is the total hp, which is what really matters.
AJW , I ran the new main pump for 2 days (pool had not been circulating for 5). On day two the motor became hot to touch and shut down with power on. After the motor cools it will run for a short time then overheat again. The aquarite and timer continued to have power and function properly with no flow switch override in the aquarite.
James diffuser is 073128 with full rated motor as you described.
I am definitely bringing in electrician. Do I need one who has major pool experience or do most full service home electricians know what they are doing?
My equipment is basic. Everything is wired 220. I have the whisperflow main pump, aquarite salt cell, Polaris PB 4-60 booster (with an older 280 cleaner I use on occasion), and Intermatic double timer with freeze protection on one breaker in the sub panel. The other breaker goes solely to the zero edge pump that has its own manual switch and I have not used all year keeping pool water level below edge.
I have the basic notion of 110 versus 220 service but I really do not grasp volts versus amps versus watts.
The way I think of what I have is I have a 60 amp breaker at my main controlling a sub panel near my pool. The sub panel breakers do not have labels and I always assumed they were two 30 amps?
Is one of you able to explain to me what my wattage requirements are for the equipment I identified on the primary subpanel breaker? My setup seems so basic that this set up had to be used routinely in pools for many years. When I try to read the old posts I get lost in them because there seems to be some assumed knowledge.
My goal right now is to understand enough to make sure the electrician will solve my problem. The current set up worked flawlessly for years (with similar equipment) and now it has shut down 3 different pump motors.
I can open the subpanel and send a picture a bit later. Thanks for your patience with me. I have learned so much thru TROUBLE FREE POOLS!
James diffuser is 073128 with full rated motor as you described.
I am definitely bringing in electrician. Do I need one who has major pool experience or do most full service home electricians know what they are doing?
My equipment is basic. Everything is wired 220. I have the whisperflow main pump, aquarite salt cell, Polaris PB 4-60 booster (with an older 280 cleaner I use on occasion), and Intermatic double timer with freeze protection on one breaker in the sub panel. The other breaker goes solely to the zero edge pump that has its own manual switch and I have not used all year keeping pool water level below edge.
I have the basic notion of 110 versus 220 service but I really do not grasp volts versus amps versus watts.
The way I think of what I have is I have a 60 amp breaker at my main controlling a sub panel near my pool. The sub panel breakers do not have labels and I always assumed they were two 30 amps?
Is one of you able to explain to me what my wattage requirements are for the equipment I identified on the primary subpanel breaker? My setup seems so basic that this set up had to be used routinely in pools for many years. When I try to read the old posts I get lost in them because there seems to be some assumed knowledge.
My goal right now is to understand enough to make sure the electrician will solve my problem. The current set up worked flawlessly for years (with similar equipment) and now it has shut down 3 different pump motors.
I can open the subpanel and send a picture a bit later. Thanks for your patience with me. I have learned so much thru TROUBLE FREE POOLS!
Can you list the equipment that you want to know the power requirements for including model numbers?
Can you show the motor labels?
WhisperFlo 1.65 hp = 1,650 watts at 230 volts and about 7.2 amps.
AquaRite = about 200 watts at 230 volts and 0.9 amps.
Polaris Booster = 1,125 watts at 230 volts and 5.4 amps.
Whisperflow pump see pics
Polaris booster pb 4-60 stickers do not give info?
Aquarite goldmine picture inside door?
Intermatic pf 1202T picture inside door.
Pump has cooled overnight and is running for now will report how long it runs before overheats.
Thanks James
1st pic inside wiring near pool
Next 3 main pump
Next 2 booster
Next aquarite
Next new timer
Polaris booster pb 4-60 stickers do not give info?
Aquarite goldmine picture inside door?
Intermatic pf 1202T picture inside door.
Pump has cooled overnight and is running for now will report how long it runs before overheats.
Thanks James
1st pic inside wiring near pool
Next 3 main pump
Next 2 booster
Next aquarite
Next new timer
Attachments
Thanks James your post overlapped me! So if I read this right the breakers in the sub panel should work if they are each 20 amp? I guess 20 years ago they didn’t require GFCI? I have so many GFCI all over this house hard for me to believe they didn’t put them on pumps. That said the pump motors are overheating no breakers trip.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 60,958
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Nope.
I think the electrician will recommend replacing the sub panel along with GFCI breakers.
Electrical GFCI - Further Reading
www.troublefreepool.com
These should be accurate.
WhisperFlo 1.65 hp = 1,650 watts at 230 volts and about 7.2 amps.
AquaRite = about 200 watts at 230 volts and 0.9 amps.
Polaris Booster = 1,125 watts at 230 volts and 5.4 amps.
The subpanel looks like it is in poor condition and I would probably replace it and install GFCI Breakers.
The pump impeller might have been replaced with a larger impeller.
Maybe the impeller is rubbing on the seal plate due to bad seal plate grommets causing the motor to pull back.
Open the pump and check the impeller size and for signs of rubbing.
Check the voltage and current under load and with no load.
The voltage drop should be less than 3%.
WhisperFlo 1.65 hp = 1,650 watts at 230 volts and about 7.2 amps.
AquaRite = about 200 watts at 230 volts and 0.9 amps.
Polaris Booster = 1,125 watts at 230 volts and 5.4 amps.
The subpanel looks like it is in poor condition and I would probably replace it and install GFCI Breakers.
The pump impeller might have been replaced with a larger impeller.
Maybe the impeller is rubbing on the seal plate due to bad seal plate grommets causing the motor to pull back.
Open the pump and check the impeller size and for signs of rubbing.
Check the voltage and current under load and with no load.
The voltage drop should be less than 3%.
The pump ran for under 1 hour, hot to touch then as I walked back up it fired up. So you two feel I can use any decent home electrician to install new sub panel with GFCI breakers? Seems like once that is complete I can do better testing relative to pump and impeller, load and no load. Since current sub panel is not marked should the new gfci be 20 or 30 amp or does it matter?
THANKS again for the TLC!
THANKS again for the TLC!
- Jul 21, 2013
- 60,958
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Any qualified electrician can do the work.
20 amp breakers are what you need.
Best to use a Siemens CB (QF220AP) or Pentair PA220GF for the filter pump if you intend to get a VS pump at some time.
www.troublefreepool.com
20 amp breakers are what you need.
Best to use a Siemens CB (QF220AP) or Pentair PA220GF for the filter pump if you intend to get a VS pump at some time.
Electrical GFCI - Further Reading
www.troublefreepool.com
Ask them if they feel comfortable working on pool equipment.
I would open the pump now to see what's what.
The subpanel should be rated based on the size of the Line wires.
The new GFCI breakers should be Siemens 20 Amp Double Pole Type QPF2 GFCI Circuit Breaker, so make sure that the subpanel will take that type of breaker.
The electrician can check for voltage and current.
Siemens 20 Amp Double Pole Type QPF2 GFCI Circuit Breaker US2:QF220AP - The Home Depot
Prevent a ground fault in construction applications like spas, hot tubs, kitchens or bathrooms with this Siemens Double Pole Type QPF GFCI Circuit Breaker.
www.homedepot.com
Last edited:
James I have not used the pump to the left all year, so I don’t know. The left most pump services a catchment for the zero edge that we have not used. I kept water level below the edge and siphoned water out of catchment this year.
Thanks again to you both for the specific recommendations.
Thanks again to you both for the specific recommendations.
UPDATE: new electrical subpanel installed, refurbished pump motor pulling 12.4 amps so it’s SHOT. Told pool guy there has to be mismatched impeller problem and bring out everything “new” and take defective stuff away! So JAMES you knew. Actually old box and breakers were still functioning but I added the new box and 2 Siemens 20 amp GFCI to the pool box is now properly bonded.
Attachments
That is about 1.72 times more amperage than expected.
It points to a larger impeller or maybe the impeller is rubbing on the seal plate.
Was the voltage under load checked?
Impeller......Total HP......Amps at 230 volts.
073126.........0.95................4.13
073127.........1.25................5.43
073128.........1.65................7.2
073129.........2.20................9.56
073130.........2.60................11.3
073131.........3.45................15.0
The voltage at the pump switch with the motor on should not be less than 97% of the voltage with the motor off.
For example, if the voltage is 240 near the pump with the motor off, the voltage near the pump with the motor on should be at least 232.8 volts (which is a 3% voltage drop).
www.southwire.com
For example, if the voltage is 240 near the pump with the motor off, the voltage near the pump with the motor on should be at least 232.8 volts (which is a 3% voltage drop).
Voltage Drop Calculator | Southwire
www.southwire.com
The motor label shows a Max Load Amps of 8.0 at 230 volts.
The actual amperage should usually be under the max load amps by about 10%.
8 x 90% = 7.2 amps at 230 volts.
The actual amperage should usually be under the max load amps by about 10%.
8 x 90% = 7.2 amps at 230 volts.
When you ask if voltage under load was checked I assume that means pump running? Electrician checked each line at timer box (going out) but I didn’t snap a picture nor do I remember if we compared with pump running to pump not running. This is an example where I get confused by voltage versus watts versus amps. Some assumed knowledge creeps in that I do not have. I have a tester with a clamp and we checked my values (amps) to electricians and mine is accurate.