general swcg question

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FlaPoolGuy

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Oct 5, 2019
139
Florida
Sorry if this is posted somewhere, but I've spent about an hour looking for the answer. I'm sure it's out there, but I just can't find it.

I have a Pentair Superflo variable speed pump 342002 installed and working well, and it has "RS-485 connectivity for improved interface with automation systems and IoT devices to allow more flexibility"

www.pentair.com

SuperFlo® VST Pool Pump

Pentair SuperFlo VST Variable Speed Pool Pump for inground pools is for pools requiring up to a 1.5 HP pump. This pump is a TradeGrade product.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com

I am ready to get my pool converted to SWG, and I'm not sure how to do the setup. After installing the plumbing portion of the device, it seems that the SWG has an electrical control box/power supply that needs to be "on" if and only if the pump is "on." How do I coordinate to make sure the two turn on and off together?

The pump that I have has a clock and timer already on the pump itself which I use to do variable speed timing already, so I'm not sure I need a full-on automation control center. Is there a way for my pump to tell a Pentair IC20 or IC40 when to turn off and on? Or do I need an automation center to do this, and switch my pump into "dumb mode" where the pump's clock and timer are essentially bypassed, and the pump runs in "external control" mode with control instructions coming from the automation control center (Intellitouch etc)

Of note, my pump's power source is: circuit breaker box -> Yellow intermatic timer with the on/off prongs removed so it's "always on" -> pump.
I also have a second, unused intermatic timer next to the first. I suppose the 2nd intermatic timer could be wired to control the SWG, but that seems dangerous if I ever stop the pump early or for whatever reason I have to also remember to stop the 2nd timer, and then reconnect the start/stop prongs at exactly the same location on the dial... seems prone to user (me!) error. How should the devices be synchronized safely?

Thanks for your help again!
-FlaPoolGuy
 
pool-pump-filter-03.png
Here is what the setup looks like. The left, lower timer is the power source for the pump (through the conduit out the bottom of the intermatic box, to the ground (gray), extending to the pump. I don't actually know where the conduit from the 2nd intermatic timer goes/what it powers.
 
It's hard to tell if you have room for a SWG in your plumbing. It looks kind of compact. Post some pics from different angles so the pipes can be viewed better. You do want a 12" run of straight pipe before the SWG though I believe the cell can be included in the 12". Since you have no automation or a variable speed pump you can use one timer for the pump and one for the SWG system. You will want the SWG to turn on after the pump turns on and the SWG should turn off before the pump turns off.
 
FlaPoolGuy said:
Is there a way for my pump to tell a Pentair IC20 or IC40 when to turn off and on?
Click to expand...

No, not with a Superflo Pump and IntelliChlor SWG.

FlaPoolGuy said:
Or do I need an automation center to do this, and switch my pump into "dumb mode" where the pump's clock and timer are essentially bypassed, and the pump runs in "external control" mode with control instructions coming from the automation control center (Intellitouch etc)
Click to expand...

Yes. Probably a Pentair IntelliConnect. Pentair changed the IntelliConnect firmware in late 2023 to make it compatible with SuperFlo VST, SuperMAX VS, and WhisperFlo VST pumps manufactured after 10/15/20 so confirm your pump is compatible.

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
FlaPoolGuy said:
I also have a second, unused intermatic timer next to the first. I suppose the 2nd intermatic timer could be wired to control the SWG, but that seems dangerous if I ever stop the pump early or for whatever reason I have to also remember to stop the 2nd timer, and then reconnect the start/stop prongs at exactly the same location on the dial... seems prone to user (me!) error. How should the devices be synchronized safely?
Click to expand...

The cell has its flow switch as a secondary safety.

It is not dangerous for the cell to be powered without waterflow for a short time while you are working on equipment.
 
TinFoilHat said:
It's hard to tell if you have room for a SWG in your plumbing. It looks kind of compact. Post some pics from different angles so the pipes can be viewed better. You do want a 12" run of straight pipe before the SWG though I believe the cell can be included in the 12". Since you have no automation or a variable speed pump you can use one timer for the pump and one for the SWG system. You will want the SWG to turn on after the pump turns on and the SWG should turn off before the pump turns off.
Click to expand...
I am getting all the valves replaced also, so the PVC from the ground's surface and above will all be new. But here is what I currently have anyway:

pool plumbing 2023-05.jpg

Just for clarity, my pump *is* variable speed, but the automation compatibility seems to be limited to receiving (not giving) instructions.

With my current setup, it looks like the following options:

1. get an automation controller and use the controller to control the timing for both the SWG and the pump. The pump timer and clock will be ignored by the pump.
2. Use a separate timer for the SWG (either the existing "#2" intermatic timer, or something else). Use the pump's onboard clock and timer for variable speed control. The SWG should turn on *after* the pump turns on, and the SWG should turn off *before* the pump turns off.
3. There is no reason my pump needs to be wired to the intermatic timer #1 as power source since the pump has its own clock and timer. rewire the pump so that it doesn't use the intermatic timer #1. Then connect the SWG to the newly liberated intermatic timer #1.

Honestly, I like #3 the best, as it uses my existing infrastructure. Also, since my pump instructions note the pump can keep the correct time for a power outage for 24 hours, there is some robustness in the system. If there's a long power outage, I just have to remember to force the intermatic timer into "always off" mode until I get back to resynchronize the pump clock and SWG/intermatic timer clock.
 
Show me the label in the front of the pump under the suction pipe inlet...

1730141038268.png
 
A fourth option is controlling the SWG power with a current sensing relay...

Current Sensing Relay for SWG with Variable Speed pump

First, thanks to all of the posters who make this such a valuable forum! I've only recently joined, but hope to add value over time! There are several threads regarding using a current-sensing relay to avoid the problem of a SWG running when the pump is NOT running. Recently, the flow sensor...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

My wiring diagram for current sensing relay

I would like to preface this by saying I’m faaaaaar from an electrician. In fact I’m mostly posting this to get other people’s (who know more than me) take on this subject. I’m installing a SWG in the spring, and want to put in some insurance to make sure I don’t turn my SWG into a little bomb...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
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The relay is a very neat idea. Or do as I did, and buy a new timer. I got an Intermatic that controls separately up to 3 things. So my pump is on one schedule, and the SWCG is set to start 15 min after the pump, and shut down 15 min before the pump does. (Similar for my heater). It even remembers the settings after a long winter of being shut off. But it does forget what time of day it is after a couple of months without power.

Check the manual for your proposed SWCG. Mine has the option for going vertical, and does not need to be in a horizontal run. Vertical Installation Kit for CircuPool® Saltwater Chlorinator Systems
 
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Now why would you block the serial number? It has no consequence if seen. Did you steal the pump? And your pics show two different pumps so you must have changed it along the way. Without automation you can put line voltage to the VSP and program it for the times and speeds it needs to run and then the good wall timer can control the SWG inside of the pump run times. This is how mine runs and is foolproof and not high tech.
 

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TinFoilHat said:
Now why would you block the serial number? It has no consequence if seen. Did you steal the pump? And your pics show two different pumps so you must have changed it along the way. Without automation you can put line voltage to the VSP and program it for the times and speeds it needs to run and then the good wall timer can control the SWG inside of the pump run times. This is how mine runs and is foolproof and not high tech.
Click to expand...
I blocked the serial number because I do my best not to give unique identifiers on the internet. I did not steal the pump lol. The first picture does show the old (fixed speed) pump I had before it quit. That picture clearly shows the intermatic timers which is why I used that one for the first picture. If you look closely in the first picture you'll also see my old auto-chlor poking out from behind the DE filter which was removed after failure with massive water leak. In picture #2, it is replaced with straight pipe, with my lovely generous application of purple primer on the PVC.

I think your idea of using the intermatic for the SWG makes sense. Thanks- I think that's the best option unless there's a low cost automation solution on offer somewhere.
 
Crazy paranoia not needed. :sneaky: No one could possibly know you from your pool equipment. It's kind of like people that block their car license plates in photos but that are normally visible to every other driver on the road.

Anyway, I'm not aware of any inexpensive automation that anyone would recommend here, though some do use home-built stuff. A good VSP running it's schedule with a SWG on a timer running within the pump's schedule will work very well since you don't have any fancy water features. I have an in floor cleaning system on all the time, an aerator and a waterfall which are both on manual valves and I simply turn them on when I wish to. Automation has it's share of idiosyncrasies and weaknesses (mainly complicated programming as well as expense in valves and computer boards) that will keep me from ever using it. Now if I wanted to add a chiller or heater that could be a different story.
 
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