Non-jet return?

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NEBackYard

NEBackYard

Well-known member
Nov 17, 2023
55
New England
Pool Size
21500
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
My pool is under construction and there are two fixtures I cannot identify. There are two skimmers, two return jets, and two diffusers? non-jet returns? that I don't recognize from other pools I've been in.

What are these? If they are returns, how do they differ from jets? Are there pros/cons? Is it to distribute heated water better?

PXL_20240801_160341876.jpg
 
Those appear to be wall suctions. Are there two together? Do you have a waterfall or other water feature with its own pump?
 
NEBackYard said:
My pool is under construction and there are two fixtures I cannot identify. There are two skimmers, two return jets, and two diffusers? non-jet returns? that I don't recognize from other pools I've been in.

What are these? If they are returns, how do they differ from jets? Are there pros/cons? Is it to distribute heated water better?

View attachment 601197
Click to expand...
Those are suction/return covers that can be used for either purpose. Many "splash" pools (very shallow pools made for children to use, mostly found in apartment complexes) used them as return covers as a.) they dispersed water more effectively in the shallow pool, b.) kids couldn't easily change the direction and have water spraying out of the pool, c.) little fingers can't get into the holes and cause issues.
They are used in portable (above ground) spas as suction port covers.
It looks like that is a fiberglass pool, and many do not come with a main drain in the bottom but suction ports in the side lower on the walls as a circulation aid. Those may be suction ports.
Pool returns are not "jets," which are used in spas to increase water pressure at the outlet and mix air with the flow and are much more complex behind the pool/spa wall.
Most pools have a fitting, commonly referred to as and "eyeball," that is used to direct the return flow for better circulation.
Some older pools simply have an open hole that is the end of a pipe returning water to the pool. That hasn't been allowed by codes for a long time as it poses an entrapment hazard.
 
  • The pool in vinyl/steel wall.
  • I do not have any water features
  • I do not have a main drain
I have also attached a picture of my equipment pad/piping in case that is helpful

Is there a way to determine if they are suction or returns? PXL_20240801_143841065.jpgPXL_20240801_162151541.jpg
 
Those are your 'main drains'. They are set up as equalizing ports to save your pump if the water level falls below the skimmers. Check the skimmer next to them. Does it have two holes open in the bottom?
 
NEBackYard said:
  • The pool in vinyl/steel wall.
  • I do not have any water features
  • I do not have a main drain
I have also attached a picture of my equipment pad/piping in case that is helpful

Is there a way to determine if they are suction or returns? View attachment 601205View attachment 601204
Click to expand...
If the pipes are completely connected and uncovered as in the picture, just follow them back to the equipment pad. Are they connected before the pump (suction) or after the filter (return). If you can't find the plumbing for them at the pad look for it at the skimmer as they could be equalizer/main drain (suction) ports.
 
I would not accept flex PVC on new inground pool construction. It is lazy plumbing and cost cutting that will come back to bite you as the pool ages.

I am not sure of your ability to change that at this stage in construction.
 
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The plumbing transitions from the white flexible PVC to what I believe is black HDPE. From my limited research it seems like PVC is glued whereas HDPE is heated and clamped using hose barbs. Are there other tangible differences between Flex/SCH40/HDPE that I should be aware of? How exactly will the material choice come back to bite me in the future?

I agree that changing the plumbing at this stage would be extremely disruptive, and probably not viable, but for other reading this in the future, please clarify what the pros/cons of the different plumbing materials is
 
mknauss said:
Those are your 'main drains'. They are set up as equalizing ports to save your pump if the water level falls below the skimmers. Check the skimmer next to them. Does it have two holes open in the bottom?
Click to expand...
The skimmer next to them does not have two holes open in the bottomPXL_20240801_173730563.jpgPXL_20240801_173647950.jpg
 
1poolman1 said:
If the pipes are completely connected and uncovered as in the picture, just follow them back to the equipment pad. Are they connected before the pump (suction) or after the filter (return). If you can't find the plumbing for them at the pad look for it at the skimmer as they could be equalizer/main drain (suction) ports.
Click to expand...
The pipes are covered in dirt where they split and connect to the black tubing (I assume to relieve strain/tension from moving the equipment on the pad). I'll ask the PB for more info the next time they stop by
 

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NEBackYard said:
The plumbing transitions from the white flexible PVC to what I believe is black HDPE. From my limited research it seems like PVC is glued whereas HDPE is heated and clamped using hose barbs. Are there other tangible differences between Flex/SCH40/HDPE that I should be aware of? How exactly will the material choice come back to bite me in the future?

I agree that changing the plumbing at this stage would be extremely disruptive, and probably not viable, but for other reading this in the future, please clarify what the pros/cons of the different plumbing materials is
Click to expand...

Start by reading here about the different types of PVC - PVC Repair - Further Reading

Read this long thread. @Casey is a TFP Expert and unfortunately did not heed the advice to not use flex PVC on her new build and within a few months it got clogged. As you will read she eventually dug along her deck and repiped the line with solid PVC.

Imagine Illusion 40 Complete 10/19/21

James they can't find them to buy them. What name should we use to do a search to find them?
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Flex PVC is considered hose and not pipe. It is not as strong as schedule 40 PVC and can kink. It will not last as long as schedule 40 PVC.
 
ajw22 said:
Start by reading here about the different types of PVC - PVC Repair - Further Reading

Read this long thread. @Casey is a TFP Expert and unfortunately did not heed the advice to not use flex PVC on her new build and within a few months it got clogged. As you will read she eventually dug along her deck and repiped the line with solid PVC.

Imagine Illusion 40 Complete 10/19/21

James they can't find them to buy them. What name should we use to do a search to find them?
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Flex PVC is considered hose and not pipe. It is not as strong as schedule 40 PVC and can kink. It will not last as long as schedule 40 PVC.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say I didn't heed the advice because I wanted the SCH40 and PB agreed to provide it. They came in with flex instead. Due to my late husband having issues, I decided not to fight for it. I thought I'd have a bit of time but a few months was mind blowing. If I ever build another pool, it will have sch40 for sure.
 
ChrisLPC said:
Side note I do not see a flow switch plumbed anywhere in the pictures. It looks like a Hayward salt cell which comes with a separate flow switch.
Click to expand...
I spotted the flow switch. In the second photo of Post 4, you can just see it behind the pump.

One thing you should do is flip yourself 180° so the hump is facing down. This helps to ensure that the cells remain submerged. With VS pumps running at low speed, a gas bubble can form on top and expose the plates if mounted with the hump up.
 
ajw22 said:
I would not accept flex PVC on new inground pool construction. It is lazy plumbing and cost cutting that will come back to bite you as the pool ages.

I am not sure of your ability to change that at this stage in construction.
Click to expand...
I also see some DWV (drain, waste, vent) fittings in there. Not really designed for pressurized pipes.
 

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