I have a spa that is connected to my pool, which has in ground pop up heads for the cleaning system. Recently, when the system is in pool mode, and the pop up heads are on the zone in the spa, the water level in the spa continuously rises, while draining water from the pool. It eventually overflows into the pool. After the system is turned off, everything levels out eventually. The system works as expected when in SPA mode. I know I can set the spa to overflow into the pool, but we do not use that set up. I have not moved any valves, this just started happening. I manually moved the 3 way valve in front of spa function to the middle position, and then it started draining water from the spa (too fast to leave it like that). Any ideas on what could be causing this? Pictures are attached.
Spa Suddenly Overflowing into Pool when in Pool Mode and Pop Up Heads are in Spa Zone
- Thread starter Sanders486
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S,
Assuming everything was working before...
The first thing that I would want to look at would be the Intake and Return automated valves. The should each move about 180 degrees when you switch between the pool mode and spa mode, and they should move back when you switch back to the pool mode.
If both valves are moving like they should, then I would suspect some issue with the gearing for the In Floor Cleaning System. (Keep in mind that I know almost nothing about an IFCS..)
Run a quick test and tell us if both the Return and Intake valve are moving at the same time, as they should..
Thanks,
Jim R.
Assuming everything was working before...
The first thing that I would want to look at would be the Intake and Return automated valves. The should each move about 180 degrees when you switch between the pool mode and spa mode, and they should move back when you switch back to the pool mode.
If both valves are moving like they should, then I would suspect some issue with the gearing for the In Floor Cleaning System. (Keep in mind that I know almost nothing about an IFCS..)
Run a quick test and tell us if both the Return and Intake valve are moving at the same time, as they should..
Thanks,
Jim R.
The Intake and Return automated valves seem to be functioning properly. When I move the pool into spa mode, they both move 180 degrees (and it works properly in spa mode), then when I switch it back to pool mode they rotate back 180 degrees. I also tested these valves manually, so I am 99% confident they are working properly.
Interesting that you say the gears for the IFCS. I had originally thought it was that. The water level has always increased a tiny bit when the pop up heads are in the spa zone, but then would go back down immediately after it moved onto the next zone. But now the problem I originally described is happening. I noticed it first last week and just monitored the pool a little and noticed the pop up heads weren't rotating through the zones. So I thought since the pop up heads weren't rotating, it was getting stuck on the spa zone, staying there too long and thus the water was increasing. So I looked at the gears and there was one gear that had lost its plastic threads causing the gears to not rotate. This explained why the pop up heads weren't rotating through the zones, so I bought a kit online, replaced that one gear and thought that would fix everything. It did fix the pop up heads not rotating through the zones (they now rotate as expected), but I still have the problem with the spa water level elevating too much when the pop up heads are in that zone. I cannot think mechanically how the IFCS gears would cause that, but I am definitely not an expert on the IFCS.
Interesting that you say the gears for the IFCS. I had originally thought it was that. The water level has always increased a tiny bit when the pop up heads are in the spa zone, but then would go back down immediately after it moved onto the next zone. But now the problem I originally described is happening. I noticed it first last week and just monitored the pool a little and noticed the pop up heads weren't rotating through the zones. So I thought since the pop up heads weren't rotating, it was getting stuck on the spa zone, staying there too long and thus the water was increasing. So I looked at the gears and there was one gear that had lost its plastic threads causing the gears to not rotate. This explained why the pop up heads weren't rotating through the zones, so I bought a kit online, replaced that one gear and thought that would fix everything. It did fix the pop up heads not rotating through the zones (they now rotate as expected), but I still have the problem with the spa water level elevating too much when the pop up heads are in that zone. I cannot think mechanically how the IFCS gears would cause that, but I am definitely not an expert on the IFCS.
Turbo1Ton
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What I am understanding you are describing, is exactly as I would expect it to work. That is exactly how my IFCS works on my spa zone. The IFCS is pulling water from the pool, and returning it through the pop-ups in the spa. This is essentially the same as running a spillway, where the suction is from the pool, and the returns are to the spa.
The valve marked with Spa Bypass on the left and Spa Cleaner on the right. Has this valve always been in this position? I am assuming that this is coming from the IFCS zone valve and going to the pop-ups, as it is oriented. If it is moved 180 degrees, then it goes through the Spa Bypass, which I would suspect is a return in the pool.
This would indicate an issue as the water flow coming out of the pop-ups has to go somewhere, and I would expect that to be over the spillway, back into the pool. Unless the spa suction was also on at the same time as the IFCS, which I don't know how you would do that without putting it into spa mode, essentially turning off the IFCS.
It sounds to me as if something was not functioning correctly previously, and now that you've fixed the zone valve, the system is back to it's correct operation. I'm still thinking this through though, to make sure I'm not overlooking something.
Also gonna call in another set of eyes to take a look. Calling @proavia - please take a look at OP's set up and questions with me.
--Jeff
Yes, this valve is typically in this position and I believe you are correct about your assumption.
I would agree with this if it was working as it was before. Previously (in the 11 years we have lived here with this pool) the water level would not increase so much in the spa that it would overflow to the pool when the IFCS was rotating through the spa zone. It just started doing this. And now it causes problems, because it is draining water from the pool, faster than it is putting water back in the pool and then the pool level gets too low. There is a way we can set the spa to continuously spillover into the pool, but we never use that option because honestly I can't remember which valve to turn to do it.
Summary of what happens:
Turn pool on in pool mode.
IFCS cycles through zones in pool, everything is normal.
IFCS gets to spa zone, pop up heads come up, water level in spa increases, lets say an inch. It is higher, but not over flowing into the pool yet. Water level in pool is decreasing.
IFCS cycles through zones in pool again. Water level in spa decreases some, but not back to where it started. It is still elevated compared to where it started.
IFCS gets to spa zone again. Pop up heads come up, water level in spa increases again. It is higher again, but not over flowing into the pool yet. Water level in pool is decreasing.
IFCS cycles through zones in pool again. Water level in spa decreases some, but not back to where it started. It is still elevated compared to where it started.
IFCS gets to spa zone again. Pop up heads come up, water level in spa increases again this time overflowing into the pool. Water level in pool is decreasing.
IFCS cycles through zones in pool again. Water level in spa decreases some, but not back to where it started. Now it isn't over flowing into the pool anymore.
IFCS gets to spa zone again. Pop up heads come up, water level in spa increases again overflowing into the pool. Water level in pool is decreasing.
.... and we continue on.
Pool works perfectly normal and as expected when in spa mode.
Turbo1Ton
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How much is the pool level decreasing? Just so we are all on the same page, what does 'pool level too low' mean? Is it dropping below the skimmers, or too low for the skimmers to function appropriately. Normal water level at the skimmer should be halfway up the mouth. I don't know what minimum would be, but I would say if this dropped below 3/8 of the way up the mouth, it is likely too low for them to work effectively.
I'm not saying that your pool level isn't decreasing, I am saying it is not making sense in my brain that the small number of gallons required to make the spa overflow, is noticeable in the pool level. All pools are different and I am going off of my pool, in which the most my spa level ever drops is 1" or so.
I'm going to make an assumption here, that your spa is 8' in diameter. It looks to me that the spa would need to raise about 2" before it starts overflowing to the pool. That is approximately 62 gallons.
- What speed are you running your pump during the cleaning cycle?
- Do you have any way to know what the flow is at this speed?
- How long does the IFCS stay in each zone?
Everything you describe above makes sense to me, except that the pool water is getting too low. That and I would suspect that the spa would overflow every time, not that it would take time to build up to it. Most of the IFCS heads require about 40GPM or so to function correctly, so I would expect at that rate, that the spa would fill much faster. Flow is going to be dependent on pump speed which is why I asked that question.
You don't have any check valves to prevent water from backflowing from the spa, that I can see. So water level decreasing in the spa makes sense. This is not surprising since it appears that your spa and pool are essentially at the same level, and you don't need to prevent the water from backflowing.
Can you confirm that this is the direction of water flow in the piping? Or is it opposite? Trying to determine what the valves do. I believe the one marked Therapies is your spa jets. Not sure what the one marked returns does, yet.
When you put the system into Spa mode, which return valve moves? I suspect the one marked therapies.
Could you post a pic of the entire equipment area, so we can see everything in one shot, to help with context? I think I've got it stitched together in my mind, but want to make sure I'm not missing something.
--Jeff
I'm not saying that your pool level isn't decreasing, I am saying it is not making sense in my brain that the small number of gallons required to make the spa overflow, is noticeable in the pool level. All pools are different and I am going off of my pool, in which the most my spa level ever drops is 1" or so.
I'm going to make an assumption here, that your spa is 8' in diameter. It looks to me that the spa would need to raise about 2" before it starts overflowing to the pool. That is approximately 62 gallons.
- What speed are you running your pump during the cleaning cycle?
- Do you have any way to know what the flow is at this speed?
- How long does the IFCS stay in each zone?
Everything you describe above makes sense to me, except that the pool water is getting too low. That and I would suspect that the spa would overflow every time, not that it would take time to build up to it. Most of the IFCS heads require about 40GPM or so to function correctly, so I would expect at that rate, that the spa would fill much faster. Flow is going to be dependent on pump speed which is why I asked that question.
You don't have any check valves to prevent water from backflowing from the spa, that I can see. So water level decreasing in the spa makes sense. This is not surprising since it appears that your spa and pool are essentially at the same level, and you don't need to prevent the water from backflowing.
Can you confirm that this is the direction of water flow in the piping? Or is it opposite? Trying to determine what the valves do. I believe the one marked Therapies is your spa jets. Not sure what the one marked returns does, yet.
When you put the system into Spa mode, which return valve moves? I suspect the one marked therapies.
Could you post a pic of the entire equipment area, so we can see everything in one shot, to help with context? I think I've got it stitched together in my mind, but want to make sure I'm not missing something.
--Jeff
I figured this out and it was embarrassingly simple. There is a pipe that connects the spa to the pool so that water can flow freely between the two. There was a rubber stopper on one end of the pipe causing water not to be able to flow freely. The reason I didn't think of this is because we rarely use the stopper (I don't think it helps heat the spa that much faster) and it is not in a place that is easily visible to where we normally walk. I was taking pictures to post on here and saw it and immediately went...AAhhhh. I told my husband about it and he said oh yea I meant to tell you that was there. 
So because the pipe was blocked, the water level was increasing in the spa when it was in that zone but couldn't get back to the pool because the pipe was closed. As far as the water disappearing out of the pool, I think what was happening is that once the water got high enough in the spa, it was above the bottom ledge of the pool deck and water was seeping out of the spa in cracks between the pool deck and the spa wall (yeah...need to fix that).
Thanks to Jeff and Jim for your help. Your questions led me to keep investigating and find the easy answer.
So because the pipe was blocked, the water level was increasing in the spa when it was in that zone but couldn't get back to the pool because the pipe was closed. As far as the water disappearing out of the pool, I think what was happening is that once the water got high enough in the spa, it was above the bottom ledge of the pool deck and water was seeping out of the spa in cracks between the pool deck and the spa wall (yeah...need to fix that).
Thanks to Jeff and Jim for your help. Your questions led me to keep investigating and find the easy answer.
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Glad you found an easy answer!
Sorry for the late reply .... been busy with holiday preparations.
The IFCS water distribution valve only gets water from the pool return side plumbing. When the spa zone of the IFCS is active, water from the pool is returned to the spa popups from the pool suction lines. As you found out, the equalizer pipe returns that IFCS water from the spa popups to the pool. And with the equalizer pipe plugged, water overflows the spa back into the pool.
Sorry for the late reply .... been busy with holiday preparations.
The IFCS water distribution valve only gets water from the pool return side plumbing. When the spa zone of the IFCS is active, water from the pool is returned to the spa popups from the pool suction lines. As you found out, the equalizer pipe returns that IFCS water from the spa popups to the pool. And with the equalizer pipe plugged, water overflows the spa back into the pool.
Last edited:
Turbo1Ton
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Glad you were able to get it sorted!
I don't have an equalizer since my spa is raised, so that is something I'll be sure to try to keep in mind for future questions like this. Thanks for teaching me something!
--Jeff
I don't have an equalizer since my spa is raised, so that is something I'll be sure to try to keep in mind for future questions like this. Thanks for teaching me something!
--Jeff