Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
Great looking job
How many yards did they end up shooting?
Great looking job
How many yards did they end up shooting?
Pool Build - California Dreaming - 3 Years Closer
- Thread starter spillmar
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Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
:-D Thanks Simi; I had calculated 96.5; We used 97 with less than half a yard wastage. So basically my calcs were right on. We used 3500 psi and I went ahead and hired an inspector to test and rate the concrete for the engineer and city when I begin the pool house and have the roof overhanging the swim up bar portion of the pool.
Just a question, in the deep end I can see one indent in the pool of about 1ft x 2ft between drains. Also aside from the spa and Baja shelf, the floor is pretty rough. In one aide there are some trowel marks about 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep. Should thus matter or will plaster compensate?
:-D Thanks Simi; I had calculated 96.5; We used 97 with less than half a yard wastage. So basically my calcs were right on. We used 3500 psi and I went ahead and hired an inspector to test and rate the concrete for the engineer and city when I begin the pool house and have the roof overhanging the swim up bar portion of the pool.
Just a question, in the deep end I can see one indent in the pool of about 1ft x 2ft between drains. Also aside from the spa and Baja shelf, the floor is pretty rough. In one aide there are some trowel marks about 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep. Should thus matter or will plaster compensate?
Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
That's about 2 1/2 times the norm in yardage
Wow! Great job on your calculations
Rough (in this case!) is good. It will allow for the plasterer to have a nice surface to adhere to. Smooth is not good and doesn't allow for the best adhesion. Don't worry about what you are describing (I tried to look at the pictures and see it, but I couldn't find it), it will be fine.
Kinda nice that we have a "rain day" today! That will really help you with curing! Good clean living comes in handy again, huh?
That's about 2 1/2 times the norm in yardage
Wow! Great job on your calculations Rough (in this case!) is good. It will allow for the plasterer to have a nice surface to adhere to. Smooth is not good and doesn't allow for the best adhesion. Don't worry about what you are describing (I tried to look at the pictures and see it, but I couldn't find it), it will be fine.
Kinda nice that we have a "rain day" today! That will really help you with curing! Good clean living comes in handy again, huh?
Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
Thank Simi. Probably more of a spot on guess than scientific. I am alot more at ease now knowing that rough is better than smooth. I did find out what the indent near the drains was; the shotcrete guys said it is basically a tray for the plaster guys to put their pump during prep and cleaning. As to cost I paid under $8000 for concrete and another $40 per yard for labor. All in all $2k under my budget of $14k.
Thank Simi. Probably more of a spot on guess than scientific. I am alot more at ease now knowing that rough is better than smooth. I did find out what the indent near the drains was; the shotcrete guys said it is basically a tray for the plaster guys to put their pump during prep and cleaning. As to cost I paid under $8000 for concrete and another $40 per yard for labor. All in all $2k under my budget of $14k.
Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
That's a great deal on the shotcrete My cost from my guys would have been about $19,000.00, FYI.
That's a great deal on the shotcrete
My cost from my guys would have been about $19,000.00, FYI.Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
Well, I would definitely recommend them. PM me any time for their contact info. The guys were also very professional and diligent. They will go as far as San Diego up to Sacramento. (faces courtesy of my eldest daughter Sofia).
Well, I would definitely recommend them. PM me any time for their contact info. The guys were also very professional and diligent. They will go as far as San Diego up to Sacramento. (faces courtesy of my eldest daughter Sofia).Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
Well nobody is perfect. I pulled off the sono tubes that form the bar stools and several of the bar stools had one large hole with some exposed steel. Even I know that you need to remove air pockets. My feeling is they did not bang the tube or put a rod in to let air escape. Anyway, aside from getting them to come back and patch the stools, is there anything else I should know? Is this an easy fix or will I see problems later?
Well nobody is perfect. I pulled off the sono tubes that form the bar stools and several of the bar stools had one large hole with some exposed steel. Even I know that you need to remove air pockets. My feeling is they did not bang the tube or put a rod in to let air escape. Anyway, aside from getting them to come back and patch the stools, is there anything else I should know? Is this an easy fix or will I see problems later?
Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
They should have vibrated them. There is no "cold joint" issues on a pool, so as long as you have a good sticky (I'd add some clue) concrete mix to patch it with you will be fine. Just make sure the patch is done right, or you will have problems later that you do not want
How are you going to finish them? Might not be a bad idea to make them all tile. I would definitely do the tops in tile, and down the sides 3-4 inches. Maybe all tile is a good solution!
They should have vibrated them. There is no "cold joint" issues on a pool, so as long as you have a good sticky (I'd add some clue) concrete mix to patch it with you will be fine. Just make sure the patch is done right, or you will have problems later that you do not want
How are you going to finish them? Might not be a bad idea to make them all tile. I would definitely do the tops in tile, and down the sides 3-4 inches. Maybe all tile is a good solution!
Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
Thanks again Simi. My plan is to tile the whole bar stool down to four inches above the floor.
Thanks again Simi. My plan is to tile the whole bar stool down to four inches above the floor.
Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
You're welcome!
All tile will be very nice. You might want to waterproof them before tiling with something like Mulasticoat/Laticrete/Thoroseal/Penekrete just to buy a little extra protection. Done right, you will not have to think about it for a very long time!
You're welcome!
All tile will be very nice. You might want to waterproof them before tiling with something like Mulasticoat/Laticrete/Thoroseal/Penekrete just to buy a little extra protection. Done right, you will not have to think about it for a very long time!
Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
Thanks again Simi. I have taken note of the sealer. I was planning on using the same in the raised bond bean and columns which adjoin the pool. I had not thought of the bar stools funny enough considering they're under water.
Today it will be reaching about 80ish and pretty sunny. My plan is to spray pool between games. I have been diligent a whole day now. Aside from the swim up bar stools eveything else looks pretty solid. I had no plumbing leaks and considering the amount of traffic around pool the last week that's pretty good. I am taking no more chances however and will be filling the trenches soon.
Thanks again Simi. I have taken note of the sealer. I was planning on using the same in the raised bond bean and columns which adjoin the pool. I had not thought of the bar stools funny enough considering they're under water.
Today it will be reaching about 80ish and pretty sunny. My plan is to spray pool between games. I have been diligent a whole day now. Aside from the swim up bar stools eveything else looks pretty solid. I had no plumbing leaks and considering the amount of traffic around pool the last week that's pretty good. I am taking no more chances however and will be filling the trenches soon.
Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
Here is a shot of the finished shotcrete. As you can see I have my watering station all set up. After only a couple days of wetting down the concrete to help with the curing process, one can already see the hardening occurring. One thing I did not notice is the amount of "pebbly dirt" or pilling. I can see where an acid wash and a good scrub down would be necessary.
Here is a shot of the finished shotcrete. As you can see I have my watering station all set up. After only a couple days of wetting down the concrete to help with the curing process, one can already see the hardening occurring. One thing I did not notice is the amount of "pebbly dirt" or pilling. I can see where an acid wash and a good scrub down would be necessary.
Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
It is amazing to me in reviewing some of the images I took of the shotcrete process, how skilled these guys are to take basically a mass of material to a skeleton and sculpt it to form; and over 12 hours no less !!
The attached image shows how much concrete was piled on to the frame of our pool and then basically carved out. What was left was applied to other areas and to the floor where possible. It is my understanding that shotcrete while harder to pile up due to its more wet consistency is in fact much easier to apply for large projects and less costly in great part due to the fact that waste due to rebound and the risks of de-lamination do not come into play as much as gunite.
Let me know your thoughts here. Please note that I am not trying to bring a debate to the table on whether shotcrete (wet) or gunite (dry) is better or worse than the other.
It is amazing to me in reviewing some of the images I took of the shotcrete process, how skilled these guys are to take basically a mass of material to a skeleton and sculpt it to form; and over 12 hours no less !!
The attached image shows how much concrete was piled on to the frame of our pool and then basically carved out. What was left was applied to other areas and to the floor where possible. It is my understanding that shotcrete while harder to pile up due to its more wet consistency is in fact much easier to apply for large projects and less costly in great part due to the fact that waste due to rebound and the risks of de-lamination do not come into play as much as gunite.
Let me know your thoughts here. Please note that I am not trying to bring a debate to the table on whether shotcrete (wet) or gunite (dry) is better or worse than the other.
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Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
Neither shotcrete or dry gun are the "best", so there really is no argument to be had My pool is dry gun, and if I were to build it again I would not change it (except for the fact that it is hard to find dry gun anymore!). Chances are your structural engineering was provided by Ron Lacher (Pool Engineering Inc. in Anaheim), who is very "cautious" in his calculations, and very well respected in the industry. All of his engineering is based upon dry gun, properly placed.
Application is everything. Dry gun will seldom come up to 2,000 psi, but is easy to shape and fill around rebar, leaving few voids. Shotcrete will test much higher, but is "brittle" and the stones make it harder to cut, and can leave voids somewhat easier (as you noticed with your bar stools). Neither, poorly applied, is any good!
They did a great job on your pool, and I am sure that it will last for a long, long time! I can't wait to see the finished yard
Neither shotcrete or dry gun are the "best", so there really is no argument to be had
My pool is dry gun, and if I were to build it again I would not change it (except for the fact that it is hard to find dry gun anymore!). Chances are your structural engineering was provided by Ron Lacher (Pool Engineering Inc. in Anaheim), who is very "cautious" in his calculations, and very well respected in the industry. All of his engineering is based upon dry gun, properly placed.Application is everything. Dry gun will seldom come up to 2,000 psi, but is easy to shape and fill around rebar, leaving few voids. Shotcrete will test much higher, but is "brittle" and the stones make it harder to cut, and can leave voids somewhat easier (as you noticed with your bar stools). Neither, poorly applied, is any good!
They did a great job on your pool, and I am sure that it will last for a long, long time! I can't wait to see the finished yard
Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
Thanks. In looking at pictures of dry Gunite sent to me during bids I did notice how less aggregate there was versus wet shotcrete. I can definitely see where the stones affected the bar stools and allowed gaps or voids. As to the shotcrete I ordered 3500 psi which should cure to about 4000 psi. I will get a report from the core sampling sent for lab tests. My engineering was not through Ron but through another pool engineer who was best suited and available to produce custom engineering for the swim up bar and weight bearing columns. I also can't wait to finish up but I feel it is going to go through March before we are done.
Thanks. In looking at pictures of dry Gunite sent to me during bids I did notice how less aggregate there was versus wet shotcrete. I can definitely see where the stones affected the bar stools and allowed gaps or voids. As to the shotcrete I ordered 3500 psi which should cure to about 4000 psi. I will get a report from the core sampling sent for lab tests. My engineering was not through Ron but through another pool engineer who was best suited and available to produce custom engineering for the swim up bar and weight bearing columns. I also can't wait to finish up but I feel it is going to go through March before we are done.
Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
I have started looking at coping. My concern is whether a poured coping due to size of the pool would add significant stress to the bond beam. Would a precast coping which is understandably thinner or a preformed GFCR product be more ideal? What I originally intended to do as you can see in my early 3D posts is to pour the coping and outer band around the pool with pavers framed in and comprising the deck. Any advice on this matter?
I have started looking at coping. My concern is whether a poured coping due to size of the pool would add significant stress to the bond beam. Would a precast coping which is understandably thinner or a preformed GFCR product be more ideal? What I originally intended to do as you can see in my early 3D posts is to pour the coping and outer band around the pool with pavers framed in and comprising the deck. Any advice on this matter?
Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
There should be no load issues with any coping you decide upon. Put on what you like! I would, however, make sure that you pour the coping (and box out the skimmer(s) with the coping, not part of the deck!) first, install your expansion joint, and then install whatever you do outside of the pool. Pools and decks expand and contract at different rates, so you definitely want to keep them separated (and the skimmer(s) are part of the pool, not the deck)!
There should be no load issues with any coping you decide upon. Put on what you like! I would, however, make sure that you pour the coping (and box out the skimmer(s) with the coping, not part of the deck!) first, install your expansion joint, and then install whatever you do outside of the pool. Pools and decks expand and contract at different rates, so you definitely want to keep them separated (and the skimmer(s) are part of the pool, not the deck)!
Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
Thanks. I was wondering why the shotcrete guys incorporated the skimmers into the bond beam. So the coping would cover over the skimmer cover with a coping material cover. Good to know weight is not an issue. There is alot of contradictory information on the web.
Thanks. I was wondering why the shotcrete guys incorporated the skimmers into the bond beam. So the coping would cover over the skimmer cover with a coping material cover. Good to know weight is not an issue. There is alot of contradictory information on the web.
Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming
Yup, you're fine Think of the pool itself as one big "footing"! This is why raised bond beams work,; they are designed (in part) with potential load from a slope (or house, etc.) impacting the pool, and the shell itself becomes the structural footing for the RBB. Setting coping material on top of the beam is a "down load" and does not cause any structural issues.
Now, if you try and put a column(s) in the floor of the pool to carry a patio cover and don't engineer the floor or the column(s) to carry that load, that's another story! That was why I had asked the earlier question, just so there would be no issues later (I only like happy endings ).
Yup, you're fine
Think of the pool itself as one big "footing"! This is why raised bond beams work,; they are designed (in part) with potential load from a slope (or house, etc.) impacting the pool, and the shell itself becomes the structural footing for the RBB. Setting coping material on top of the beam is a "down load" and does not cause any structural issues. Now, if you try and put a column(s) in the floor of the pool to carry a patio cover and don't engineer the floor or the column(s) to carry that load, that's another story! That was why I had asked the earlier question, just so there would be no issues later (I only like happy endings
).